Total Pageviews

Thursday, January 28, 2010

: What Haplogroup We Be?


Jewish Haplogroups: What Are They?
By Nadene Goldfoot
First, Jews make up less than 1% of the world population today. There are people who have the genes we carry that are not Jewish.

They could be any of the haplogroups found today, but there are some that are more prevalent than others.

Update: 6/2/14-a video on Jewish DNA to come back to and watch from 2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV619rQus1s&list=PLgHUqrFleJ0WBn0rs_sjLbnqz_-bysVnG&index=2

J1: Abraham and Sarah came from Ur, which was in what is now Iraq. The majority of Ashkenazie Jewish men fall into the Y haplogroup of J. Aaron, Moses’s brother, was the first Cohen, and Cohens are an inherited position and responsibility. Cohens have been found to be J1.

This haplogroup is found to have arisen 10,000 to 15,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, and Abraham was born only about 4,000 years ago. He is mentioned in Genesis, living in about the 2nd millennium BCE. His father was Terah and was unhappy with his life in Ur in about 2,000 BCE. and left Ur, which was part of the Sumerian civilization. Besides Jews, Arabs, Armenians and Kurds are found in this haplogroup. Interestingly, Kurds are still living in Iraq, even though Saddam Hussein gassed many of them. Kurds have the closest dna to most Jewish men.The highest frequencies are in Iran and Iraq. It was carried by traders into Europe, Central Asia, India, and Pakistan. Most likely traders could have been Jews, who became involved in such endeavors.

Update: 4/29/14:  There is a J1c3 which seems to be the oldest found.  It used to be called J1e,   In the website-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victar/Haplogroup_J1c3_(Y-DNA), they said that 30% of Yemenite Jews have the haplogroup of J1c3 or P58, as it is also called. As I see it, J1c3 was the original or oldest, going back 9,000 to 10,000 years J1c3d is a subgroup of it.  The J1 SNP of L859 tells if you are an Arab Hashimite.

Information from a Hashimite friend:
The ancestor of J1c3 is J1c, and the you're right about it that J1c3d is the descendant of J1c3
It was known as J1e until February 2010  when a number of mutations were discovered in the J1 tree that made a change in nomenclature necessary.

Haplogroup J1c3, defined by the P58 marker is most frequent in Yemen-Saudi (65%) It is also very common among other Arabs such as those of the Levant, i.e. Palestinian (38.5%), Syria (30%), Lebanon (25%). In Jewish populations, J1c3 constitutes 30% of the Yemenite Jews, 20.0% of Ashkenazi results, and 12% of Sephardi results

Update 6/16/14:  There is a J1c3 that is an mtDNA haplogroup, and there is a J1c3 Ydna haplogroup that is also referred to as P58.  23&Me uses this for mtDNA, and FTDNA uses it for YDNA.  This can be very confusing.  Also, when you transfer your tests, the companies do not list your haplogroups, only the company doing the original testing.  

But the chances are high that Abraham and father were J1c3, but Noah could have been J1c.  J1c3d Arabs/israelites are the direct descendants of Abraham in that case.
There is a J2 which is associated with the spread of agriculture during the Neolithic Period from Anatolia, and this is found in central Asia, the Mediterranean, and south into India. Ashkenazi Jews have 15-23% of J2.  Sephardi Jews have 15-23% of J2.  Evidence from case studies is presented that allows the definition of a new subclade of Y Haplogroup J2b-M102.  The defining binary polymorphism of the new subclade is a deletion event in the Y-STR marker, DYS455.  The present study shows that the new subclade is located in the J2b phylogeny downstream from the previously defined subclade J2b-M241. The members of the subclade were asked about Ashkenazi and Cohanim backgrounds on their patrilineal lines and of the four who responded, all four are Ashkenazi Jews and Cohanim.  This suggests that future Y-chromosome studies involving Ashkenazi and Cohanim should type DYS455 to investigate further this possible link


G:  7% of Ashkenazies are in the G, and G2 haplogroup. This may have originated along the eastern part of the Middle East or India or Pakistan 30,000 years ago and dispersed into central Asia, Europe and the Middle East. G with a P15 mutation is found mainly in the Caucasus, Balkans, Italy and the Middle East.
Update: 5/10/2012-Types of Jewish G may have come from Khazaria.  

Q1b1: 5% of Ashkenazi Jewish men are found to be Q1b, of which is my father’s haplogroup (Q1b1a or Q-L245) and the latest is called Q-Y2200.  Q originated in Central Asia 15,000 to 20,000 years ago and the men migrated through northern Eurasia into the Americas. Q3 became Native Americans coming from a mutation that happened 8,000 to 12,000 years ago. Q1b’s are from the Altai Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and parts of Turkey. Khazaria may be the home of Q1b’s, and therefore these men could be part of the Ashina Royal Dynasty. Their common ancestor was a man 1,000 years ago. 
4/21/10: P.S.Now we're not positive if Q1b comes from Khazaria though if I had to bet I'd bet that it is. It hasn't been accepted by the main body of scientists who decide such things. To me it's the most logical place, but we have no actual proof. We need more, perhaps several bodies with teeth that could be tested for the Ydna from Khazaria. Most likely the population of Khazaria was made up of a mixture of people from various haplogroups, but it's the Royal family that we're hoping to turn out to be Q1b's as the Royal family converted to Judaism but did not force their people to convert. 
Researcher: Prof. Alfred Krupa: " As for my Ashina of Khazaria certification,  it has been issued by the largest genetic company IGENEA of Zurich, after agreement from the worlds largest genetic company FTDNA of Houston. Bennett Greenspann has been advised about all elements of formal papers and my own research,and approved such conclusion".
Update: 5/10/2012 Q1b1 is losing out in being considered as coming from the Royal family of Khazaria.  DNA expert Rebekah Canada reports that they're thinking maybe G types and R1a1a types more likely candidates.
Double Update: 5/10/2012 from Rebekah Canada:  Is Q-L245 found in modern Arab populations. Yes.
Is Q-L245 found in modern Anatolian populations. Yes.
Is Q-L245 found in modern Iran and Iraq. Yes.
Is Q-L245 found from the modern locations of the Ancient city of Ur down to the tip of Saudi Arabia and Oman. Yes.
Does that cover the places where ancient Israel, Judah, and Sumaria were. Yes.

Q-L245 or Q1b1a is the haplogroup of my father's line.  This is very exciting news today because Abraham came from Ur, and this gives  me the theory that he may also have been of this group.  Whereas Moses and Aaron may have been of the J1 haplogroup, that doesn't necessarily mean Abraham had to as well.  Without a time machine and a test kit in it, we're left to theorize intelligently.  
 Update: 7/7/13: Sorry, I did a tree from the Torah's information and Abraham would have been the direct descendant of Jacob's 12 sons.  So Moses would have been directly from Abraham.  Moses was of the Tribe of Levi.  Moses was the 6th generation from Abraham directly or his 3rd great grandson.  

Update: 5/29/12; The latest news for our group is that our origins were around Pakistan and India this must include the Assyrian Empire.  Mesopotamia was a part of Assyria, and in that empire sits Ur, which is located today in northern Iraq.   This Semitic Akkadian Kingdom was from the 25th century BCE down to 608 BCE from the upper Tigris River in Northern Mesopotamia.  


R, R1, R2, R1a, R1b haplogroups are believed to have originated in NW Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. R1 is very common in Europe and Western Eurasia. R2 is rare and found only in Indian, Iranian and central Asian populations. R1a is most common among eastern European Slavs and populations in India and central and western Asia. It was thought to be the Khazarian Jewish lineage. They most likely originated in the Eurasian steppes north of the Black and Caspian seas in the Kurgan people who lived there around 3000 BCE and known for the domestication of the horse. R1b is the most common haplogroup in Europe and expanded throughout after the last ice age, 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. It contains the Atlantic Modal Haplotype. R1b formed from a group that emigrated from Africa 50,000 years ago and eventually settled in Europe in the last 30,000 years.
Update: 5/10/2012: Subtypes of R1a1 may have come from Khazaria.

E, (E1b1b1)  Originally from Africa 50,000 years ago it was thought, now more likely the Middle East, shares common ancestry with haplogroup D.  It has groups in Africa and the Middle East.  Some clades are also found in Europe among those living near the Mediterranean, believe to represent the ancient genetic influence from the Middle East to Europe.

Haplogroup E1b1b1 is a very Jewish line.  (from Albert Benhamou)  added 5/2/2012 Albert  Einstein  belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1b2* E-Z830, with a sample taken from a paternal descendants of Naphtali Hirsch Einstein.   Also,  According to a genetic study in December 2012, Ramesses III, second Pharaoh of the Twentieth Dynasty and considered to be the last great New Kingdom king to wield any substantial authority over Egypt, belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1a, mainly found in sub-saharan Africa.  He of course was not Jewish but Jews lived in Egypt for 400 years as slaves.  Added 2/15/13.  
E-M35.1 is the 2nd most frequent  haplogroup found in Jewish families.  This is the same as  E1b1b1 that Einstein had. It's just been given a newer title.  18% to 20% of Ashkenazi Jews carry this and 8.6 % to 30% of Sephardi Jews carry it. It is the 2nd highest haplogroup found in Jewish men after J1.   "The E1b1b1 men claiming to be Levites may have existed in Israel before the Diaspora of 70 CE.  "E1b1b1 may have arisen instead of Africa,  in the Near East or the Middle East 20,000 years ago and then expanded into the Mediterranean with the spread of agriculture. E-M35, the most current group of E1b1b1 includes the individuals with no known sub-clade mutations (who are therefore said to be in the "ancestral state" referred to as E1b1b1 or E-M35)."

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPjkfCGz2k
http://www.e1b1b1-m35.info/2011/02/e1b1b1-jewish-haplogroup.html

E3b may have evolved in the Middle East before going into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It’s found in many Arab populations and in areas around the Mediterranean. It’s in East and North Africa among the Berbers and in SE Europe. The Cohen Samaritans are found with E3b due to an admixture event.  The Lemba's of South Africa have 2.9% of E3b.  Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E. 

I haplogroup is found in Scandinavia and Croatia with some in the Middle East, which most likely is the source. This was probably very common in the Viking populations.

Jewish women fall under Mitochondrial Haplogroups.

K:  33 1/3 % of Jewish women are in the K (Katrina) haplogroup. It’s a sub-branch of U haplogroup which first appeared in the Holocene Epoch after the last glacial maximum when people went into Europe. It’s low among non-Jews except for Druze. There are 4 main sub-divisions of K amongst Jews, unique just to Jews. K is 6% European and 15K Years before the present, meaning I think 15,000-25,000  years ago and originated in N. Italy. (Mitochondrial DNA haplogroup K is itself many thousands of years old. There are several branches that are found in Jewish populations. The one with the highest frequency is K1a1b1a. then kaa9, k2a2a.  This high percentage points to a genetic bottleneck occurring some 100 generations ago. Ashkenazi mtDNA K clusters into three subclades seldom found in non-Jews: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. Thus it is possible to detect three individual female ancestors, likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool, whose descendants lived in Europe.(upgraded 10/5/13.in searching Syrian Jewish mtdna.) 

H:  21% of Jewish women are H (Helena) haplogroup. There are unique characteristics in H among Jews not found in non-Jews. However, this is found in half of European women’s ancestry besides being common in North Africa and the Middle East. It’s linked to population expansion about 20,000 -30,000 years ago and originated in the Caucasus or Europe. As Jewish men journeyed, they married non-Jewish women who converted, especially in the beginnings of their wanderings. H is 47% European and originated in Southern France. It is the largest haplogroup for women. added 6/15/11: I've found an Ashkenazi Jewish woman who is H7, and feels she is 100% Ashkenazi.  This may be the line mentioned above with the unique characteristics.  I'm not sure. 

N1b:  10% of Jewish women are N1b., one of the NE African lineages and thought to have originated in Africa 50,000- 60,000 years ago. It’s common in the Middle East and main source of various European female groups including B,F, H, J, R, T, and U.

J:  7% of Jewish women are found to be J1, (Jasmine) which originated about 40,000-45,000 years ago in central Asia and is associated with the spread of farming and herding in Europe during the Neolithic Period beginning 10,000 years ago. It’s common in the Middle East and among Jews. J2 is localized in the Mediterranean. J is 17% European originating in the Middle East about 10,000 years ago and is the 2nd largest haplogroup for women. Another J listed is 5% European originating in N. Spain about 17,000 years ago.

J, J1, J2 originated about 45,000 years ago in central Asia and during the Neolithic Period were associated with the spread of farming and herding in Europe. It's common in the Middle East, Europe, the Caucasus, North Africa and among Jews. J2 is more localized in the Mediterranean. Update: J2 seems to be coming from Phonecians. J1 is about 7% of MT in Jews. Latest resource includes Canaanites and Phonecians as J2.  Both were assimilated into the Jewish Tribes during the entering of Canaan.  30% Jews have J2.

 W (Wilma) is a small group that appears in the western Ural Mountains, the natural border between Europe and Asia and the eastern Baltic area, and is also found in India. This is what my Polish/Lithuania grandmother turned out to be. Not all W’s are Jewish, of course. It occurred first about 20,000-25,000 years ago. It is figured that 1.8 million carry W in Poland, and 2.7 million carry it in Russia. It's found all over the world.   Its highest frequency is in Ukraine, European Russia, Baltic countries and Finland (3 to 5% overall), as well as in northern Pakistan (15%), Punjab (9%) and Gujarat (12%). In Indian it is considerably more common among the upper castes and among Indo-European speakers.  Actually, 14 types are found in Ashkenazie Jews that were found by Behar, main researcher in dna of the Jewish people. My grandmother was W 16145A, 16223T, 16265G, 16519C. Jewish W made up 3.1% in a test in Poland and 2.7% in Russia and te Ukraine.  http://www.thecid.com/where.htm

It is thought that Jews descend from four Jewish women today. N is one of the lines.

Behar thinks there was a bottleneck in Ashkenazic populations. This means that a large population experienced a sudden extreme population decline followed by renewed growth. The result was that almost half of Europe’s Jews were descended from just four women who lived 1,000 years ago.

A new fact has emerged about dna. It’s called the AMOVA phenomenon. It means that the environment makes the initial changes in DNA and then heredity transmits them. There is a Middle East type AMOVA and a European type and these types cut across haplogroup distinctions. This phenomenon is still in discussion.

What I find interesting is that my grandfather, from Lithuania, was a Q1b with origins in the Altai Mountains and he met and married my grandmother in Council, Idaho, a mountain mining town. Her origins were in the Ural Mountains, and she came from Lithuania/Suwalki, Poland. They then moved to Portland, Oregon.

So now I believe that Abraham was in the J or J1haplogroup . Moses and of course his brother Aaron were J1. So was Ishmael, Abraham’s first son by Hagar, the Egyptian handmaid of Sarah who became the father of the Arabs.

In my opinion only, as for Sarah, she could have been a J or J2 . Hagar, the Egyptian could have been N, or H.
Reference: Abraham’s Children, Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People by Jon Entine.
http://www.britam.org/Questions/mtDNA.htm1
Seven Daughters of Eve by Bryan Sykes
Peter Fischer-on W numbers
DNA & Genealogy by Colleen Fitzpatrick & Andrew Yeiser
usion".http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#W
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2_(Y-DNA)  added 6/16/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJKv9oPE7eU
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2004/12/haplogroup-e3b-and-ancient-jews.html
Update: 8/14/13 http://m172.blogspot.com.au/2008/10/phoenician-footprints-in-mediterranean.html on J2
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2009/09/jewish-womens-dna.html
http://www.igenea.com/en/forum/d/haplogroup-j/167
http://www.britam.org/Questions/mtDNA.html#7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeogenetics_of_the_Near_East (update 1/4/14)
Update:  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

114 comments:

Doug Forbes said...

You wrote, "5% of Jewish men are found to be Q1b". A more accurate statement is that 5% of Askenazi men are Q1b. It is also true that 5% of Iraqi Jews are Q and 15% of Yemenite Jews are Q. (Shen 2004) I am not sure about Iraqi Jews but Yemenite Jewish Q is not Q1b. It is Q1a6 being defined by the m323 mutation. Interestingly Q is found in the non-Jewish population of every country in the Arabian peninsula except Yemen.

RobinHartman said...

It appears that the assumption is that J1 is the true Haplogroup for Cohanims. However, there are may Cohanims that are J2. It is true that J1 Cohanims outnumber J2 Cohanims. However, I think there are many other factors that point to J2. Abraham's origins are SE Anatolia which is the origins of the J2 Hapologroup. J1 origins is the very southern tip of the Arabian peninsula.


As a side note, Nadine, I lived in Tualatin for 18 years.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Robin, interesting note is that your surname is the same as my married daughter now. It's not that common a surname. That's interesting about the J1 and J2's. Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees which is actually in Iraq. This is from The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia. It's right out of the Bible. You don't live in Tualatin anymore?

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Doug, I corrected it and inserted "Ashkenazi". Now I wonder what % of male Jews are Ashkenazi? I'll have to look that up.

RobinHartman said...

Yes the conventional wisdom is Ur of the Chaldess in southern Iraq. But, according to Josepheus and Maimonides it's southeast Anatolia. The Chaldeans didn't arrive on the historical scene until a thousand years after Abraham. Regardless, It's all in the fertile crescent which were more than likely J2's and not J1's.

No I'm not in Tualatin anymore. I've been in AZ for about 13 years.

If your son-in-law is haplogroup
J2B2, we could be related. The Hartman surname is very common in Europe.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Doug, I just checked and found that in 1931 Ashkenazis made up 92% of Jews, but today make up about 80% of the Jewish population.
I remember that it was the Sephardis that first came to America, but around in the late 1800's Ashkenazim came mostly from Eastern Europe to America.

Nancy said...

I have long felt there was Jewish ancestry on my mother's side for several reasons. The Primary reason being that my brother has Torsion Dystonia which occurs more in Ashkenazi Jews, then there was the term my mom used saying we were "black Dutch". I found an ancestor named Aramintha Fisher which sounds german jew to me but when I had my mtDNA done my haplogroup was J which I guess is a very low instance of my suspicions being correct. Then again, I am not sure I totally understand my dna results either.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Nancy, Wikipedia has this on Black Dutch: Sephardic Jewish merchants from Spain and Portugal settled in the Dutch Republic following their expulsion from the Iberian nations and the Netherlands' gaining independence in the 16th century. They called themselves gente del linaje, or homens da nação, “Hebrews of the Portuguese Nation." The Amsterdam chief rabbi, Menasseh Ben Israel, gained approval of Oliver Cromwell's government to readmit Jews to England in the mid-17th century.[5] Many Sephardic Jews migrated from the Netherlands to settle in England, where some became prominent businessmen and professionals. Some migrated from there to the North American colonies, settling in such southern cities as Richmond, Virginia and Charleston, South Carolina, as well as Newport, Rhode Island; Boston, New York and Philadelphia.

You tested as J what? 1 or 2? Did you have the 12 allele test or what? Was it with familytreedna? As you read here, J can be Jewish. you might want to advance your test from a 12 to at least a 25 and see who you match up with.

Nancy said...

My mtDNA test was done through ancestry.com. It only mentions J thats it. It mentions HVR1 and HVR2. Nothing about allele test. I guess until I can ever find out who Aramintha's parents are I will never know. I do have a picture of her and she is pretty dark.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Nancy,
It must be HVR1 test, but they should have told you a little more with the J. I'm surprised. I think I did see a picture of her on ancestry.com. Can you download a certificate? That will have a little more information on it. I'm not familiar with ancestry's dna testing. Hopefully, you have your own webpage with them and can find out more information. In the meantime, use ancestry.com to do your genealogy and see what you can find. Use the Morman LDS website, too. and whatever else you can find. Even google the name.

Glaucus said...

Hello,

I took the mtDNA test at ancestry.com.

DNA test said that I belong to belong to Maternal Ancient
Ancestry haplogroup J, The European Travelers.

The reason that I took the test was to know about my maternal ancestral line.
My mom never knew her mother nor any relatives on that side of the family.
All we know is that my mother was of English,German,French,and Italian ancestry.
While looking for my maternal grandmother for my mother back in 1994, I obtained
her birth certificate in San Francisco. I found out the names of my great grandparents.
My great grandmother's name was Ruth Rosenthal. Somebody told me that the name
was Jewish,and some others told me that too. However, there was no mention of
my maternal grandmother being part Jewish. I read that Rosenthal is a German name.
I recently read that its means "rose valley" I took the test, suspecting that I have Middle
Eastern ancestry, especially Jewish. Mesopotamian ancestry is also something
that I suspect on my maternal grandmother's maternal side.

I went to a site, and I asked about subclades. I was told that I have J1c
I joined mtDNA J yahoo group run by Jim Logan, and he confirmed that my subclade is J1c.
One of the members there told me that I am almost certainly Jewish because he is one of my HVR1 matches.
He also matches me on HVR2 except for 2. He said that ancestry.com doesn't test 462 and 489.

He also told me that most of his matches have Jewish surnames. He told me that the name Rosenthal could be German or Jewish, but in my case it is Jewish especially since most matches are from Eastern Europe rather than Germany. He told me that I meet the HVR criteria for subclade J1c. He said that although Mtdna haplogroup J began in the Middle East, it is likely that J1c did not enter the Jewish population until Ashkenazi Jews migrated to Eastern Europe around 600 to 700 years ago. In other words, Jewish J1c lines probably developed when Jewish men married Slavic women who converted. J1c is not very prevalent in the Middle East. He said that our last common ancestor lived around this time, after Slavic women converted, since we do not have any non-Jewish Slavic matches.



These are my mtDNA mutations to determine my haplogroup and subclade

HVR1:
73G
185A
195C
228A
263G
295T

HVR2:
315.1C
16069T
16093C
16126C
16261T
16274A
16355T


Ancestry.com doesn't do a complete job obviously.
I am thinking of getting another mtDNA done through familytreeDNA.com.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Glaucus,
You said your mtdna is J. Bryan Sykes, in his book, "The Seven Daughters of Eve," calls J Jasmine. She started in a village of about 300 people about a mile from the river Eurphrates in what is now Syria at the end of the great Ice Age. Yes, I prefer Familytreedna company for dna testing. Now I just got the results from 23 & Me, another company and am having a great time. It's different in their testing methods (spitting) and the results are of course the haplogroup but also you can find people who share some of your genome. It's very exciting. As for the surname Rosenthal, it most likely is Jewish with that J haplogroup. Go to my: http://goldfoot_genealogy.blogspot.com where I explain about German and Jewish names.

Karen Coburn said...

I am writing to ask what is the Haplogroup T2b, and is it Jewish?

I have had a suspicion for many, many years that I was Jewish and decided five years ago to do my DNA with FTDNA. I originally did the HVR1 and HVR2. Recently, in December, I ordered the FGS and just recently received my results. I went from a T2 to T2b.

The reason I did it was because my mother and grandmother didn't "seem" to know anything about our past and always seem to change the subject or not want to talk about. For years, people (especially Jewish people) would ask me if I and my mother were Jewish because we looked like it. Anyway, I found out recently that what WAS told to me wasn't true. My great-great grandmother was from Czechoslovakia and came to Baltimore, MD in the mid 1800's.

There is Jewish coming up in my DNA results from those who have confirmed they are Jewish. It is Sephardic from Turkey and Spain. I have one from Israel. The Ashkenazi fits what my grandmother said we were, German, Czechoslovakia, with Russian and Polish added in.

All I would like to know is the T2b of the Jewish haplogroups and am I Jewish. :0) Thanks!

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Karen, about your T mtdna,John Entine writes that they are believed to have originated in Mesopotamia or Anatolia 10,000 years ago. That's before Judaism was created, of course. They moved north with farming. They are found mostly around the eastern Baltic Sea and the Urals. Eastern European women are also been living there, so I would say it's very possible.

Judy Rephan Palmer said...

Can you explain what you meant by "There are unique characteristics in H in Jewish women not found in non-Jews?" I am Jewish, did the DNA maternal test with National Geographic. I have always heard that my great-grandmother on my mother's side was adopted at birth, perhaps not born Jewish. Do you know any way to find out if I come from a Jewish maternal line or not?

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Judy, I don't know the unique alleles for the Jewish H mtdna. I wish I did.

Judy Rephan Palmer said...

Thanks. Any suggestions as to where this information is?

Judy Rephan Palmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
krissitini said...

Hi. From reading through these posts I find a mention of "Black Dutch." My grandmother told me and my mother many times that she was "Black Dutch." Her mother was from Prussia, (Posen to be exact) which is now Poznan, Poland. I had my mtDNA done by FTDNA and my haplogroup is determined to be U1b. My HVR1 is:
16249C
16311C
16327T
and HVR is:
73G
146C
152C
195C
263G
285T
315.1C
It is explained on my test that this indicates Middle East origin.
I always had a feeling we were Jewish.

Thanks.

Unknown said...

Upon reading through these posts I see a mention of "Black Dutch." My grandmother always told me we were "Black Dutch." I suspected it meant we were Jewish.

I recently had my mtDNA done through FTDNA which lists my haplogroup as
U1b.

My HVR1
16249C
16311C
16327T
and HVR2
73G
146C
152C
195C
263G
285T
315.1C

My ancestral origin is listed as Middle East.

When I google my HVR1 and HVR2, I am directed to Jewish sites. Is this enough to confirm I am in fact Jewish?

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Unknown,
You're not Jewish but you have Jewish ancestry, then.

Gagga said...

Question. My yDNA is E1b1b1, and this is - "Levy" line. It seems that all the reserch is saying that the Khazar admixture event is what the Levite line comes from. Would this mean my father is not a Levite ? Or could there be mutilple Levite lines ? Could he still be a true Levite ?

MtDNA, HV1b2. This is my mom's side. Is this Jewish or non-Jewish ? It doesnt seem to be Jewish..? The main info in this refers to HV, but do you know anything about this specific line, HV1b2 ?

Gagga said...

Question. My yDNA is E1b1b1, and this is - "Levy" line. It seems that all the reserch is saying that the Khazar admixture event is what the Levite line comes from. Would this mean my father is not a Levite ? Or could there be mutilple Levite lines ? Could he still be a true Levite ?

MtDNA, HV1b2. This is my mom's side. Is this Jewish or non-Jewish ? It doesnt seem to be Jewish..? The main info in this refers to HV, but do you know anything about this specific line, HV1b2 ?

RobinHartman said...

@Gagga. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that E1b1b1 is the "Levy" line. This SNP predates Abraham. For example, my haplogroup is J2b2. There are Cohanim that are J2b2. But since this SNP is 5K+ years old, it also predates Abraham and therefore one can not declare J2b2 a Cohanim line.

Gagga said...

You misunderstood me. My fathers surname is Levy. And his yDNA is E1b1b1. I have no idea what E1b1b1 is, but I do know the surname is "Levy."

I had tjought that the Levite line was descended from an admixture event with Khazars. And it seems the current hypothesis is that R1a or R1b is the Khazar Levite line ?

Was surprised when a known person with the Levite surname ended up being E1b1b1.

It must be assumed that there are multiple Levite Lines, and the Khazar R1 line is just one of several ?

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Gagga, Is your surname "Levy"? If you father's surname is Levy, I would suppose yours is, too, and his haplogroup would then be yours as well as the Ydna goes from father to son to son to son etc. E1b1b1 means it is a Jewish line from E of which I have just added more information under the E haplogroups. Yes, Levites were a mixture of haplogroups. Only the Cohen gene has remained as pure as found. I just had a friend who is a Cohen in the synagogue test his dna and he was truly J1-the Cohen gene. Some are J1 and others J2, a slight branching there. Yes, the Khazar line seems to be more of the R1's than Q's, although I'm sure that being it was a trading center wound up with everyone there, but of course not so much in the Royal family line except in marriages, etc.

Gagga said...

Yes our family surname is Levy indeed. So it seems that the E1b1b1 yDNA is a mixture, and not as consistent as the J1-Cohen line ? The reason I ask is because we are not Jewish, but Catholic.

It seems many Levites are also E1b1b1 ? Does this confirm being a Levite or is really the J1 the only confirming consistent marker for Levite, Cohen and Israelites ?

Also our the mtDNA is interesting, didn't see much information on it --HV1b2. These people were from Lithuania and Latvia. And as far as we know have been Catholic as long as we can remember.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Levy is a Jewish surname denoting the Levites who were the teachers. This is in the Torah-first 5 books of Moses. Many Jews chose to convert to Catholicism during the Spanish Inquisition around 1492. It was that or they were forced to leave the country, and in those days that was a pretty scary thing. I'd hate to have to board the Nina, Pinta or Santa Maria today and take off for the unknown hinterland. You're not the only family who are discovering their Jewish ancstors, and I think this could certainly be the case. J1 is the Cohen gene of the descendants of Moses and Aaron, and who were to be the Cohens or priests while the Levites were the teachers. These were designated positions in the plan of Moses. mtDNA does not tell as much as Ydna because it does not mutate very much, and there are not that many groups, but Lithuania and Latvia were centers of Jewish life. I have a friends whose Jewish grandfather was in WWII and wound up in another country, having been taken prisoner, and eventually married a Catholic lady and their children grew up Catholic. They knew very little about his background. So, with all the pogroms, etc, no telling when the famiy became Catholic.
Nadene

Trade Hard said...

If you are a true Levite you will fall into the RH negative category ..The purest bloodline is 0 RH negative ...Surnames truly have nothing to do with your ancestry. During the Catholic reign of terror and Holocaust many children and babies lost their true identifies and heritage . They were hidden and some given to new families being raised under Christian and Catholic origins.

My Great Grandmother was forced into converting to being Catholic and was forced to raise her children catholic. Her maiden Was Yeager.However for years my genealogy was messed up because I was always searching under the original name spelling which was Joerger. It want until about a year ago I learned the family choose Joerger as the new spelling from Yeager to make it easier to say in English...Hmmmm


The persecution on Jews was so intense people even changed their last names in all hopes to hide and conceal who they are.

Ive done countless hours on my Genealogy and its all very puzzling . When I had my DNA testing done and came out as a J* a little more light was shed
on who I may be... I certainly was not having luck with family surnames.

Now what is very interesting is the RH negatives blood type.. Specially the 0 Negs ... I didn't learn this till I had a baby and they told me I must have the rhogam (Google Rhogam for more understanding)
Basically any other child I carry that is a RH positive my body may reject or make the baby very very sick.

Going back to Levite Law on marriage..special rules followed for Levites only ....they are only allowed to marry their own kind. Which would take me to the point of possible 0 negative blood....

I bring all this up to help expand the research and open up more ideas ...

Thanks for reading and pleas eadd your thoughts

Michelle

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Michelle, I haven't read anything on confirming Levites with blood lines. The Cohens have followed the rules and today we test dna and find the haplogroup for Cohens, but not for Levites, but it's true that Cohens do not all have that surname. However, a person who knows he's a Cohen in the synagogue through oral family history is proving to also be a Cohen in dna. Levites are of mixed haplogroups. You should read more about dna and you'll see what I mean. This is the way population geneticists follow people and their ancestors.

Gagga said...

Michelle, As far as I know, there are no specific Levite or Cohen blood types -- I have not heard any blood type related to a specific ethnicity, and limited to that.
Nadene, it seems that Jews in general are a mix of many haplogroups. Even not all Cohens fall into one group only.
The results for Levites seem to put them in many haplogroups, nothing consistent. And while a majority of Cohen's seem to fall into a particular group, there are many that do not.
I have read that the Lemba of Africa probably are the truest present day living descendents of the Levites or Cohens, as well as the Samaritans.
Also, after the Babylonians came into, many Levites left and were disbursed. The one's that stayed perhaps are the Haplogroups that we currently are seeing with regard to "J" ? I think this is not conclusive yet.
It seems like the main conclusion is that jews are a mixed group of people.

Hadassah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hadassah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hadassah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hadassah said...

I am curious...I took the mtdna test through family tree dna and they determined I am haplogroup U*. There are many reasons for me to believe I have jewish ancestry (though I am not jewish). I was told, for some reason, ftdna was unable to provide me with a subclad of U.

I was wondering how common, if at all, it is for people/women to be jewish and in haplogroup U*.

Any insight would be appreciated!

Hadassah said...

Sorry about that...seems my comment posted a "few" more times than I meant for it to be!

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Hadassah, the mtdna Haplogroup U is a very large and diverse branch. It dates to 50,000 years ago and s found in basques, Welsh and a few Atlantic coastal populations and was the mtDNA of Ceddar Man. About 40% of Europeans have the clade U5, the most frequent and ancient subcluster of U, while U2 is most common in India and U6 in North Africa. I would first upgrade your test. It's almost impossible to say what mtDNA is Jewish being the men intermarried with woman along their travels quite a lot. My own mother, H2a1 married and converted when she married my Jewish father, so I am Jewish. You may have Jewish relatives. You could take the test with ftdna or 23 and Me to see if you match any part of your genes with others who are Jewish. I've done that.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Whoops, that is Cheddar Man.

Malya said...

Jewish law determines the way a Jewish person should live according to the laws G-d set out for him/her. One of the most basic of Jewish laws is who is a Jew - G-d defines who is and who is not Jewish and told us how He does so. A Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish, or whose mother converted to Judaism according to Jewish law, or he himself converts to Judaism according to Jewish law. If someone's mother did not convert according to what G-d told us is the way He wishes a conversion to take place, then that person isn't Jewish, even if they think they are. If a person's father is Jewish, but his mother is not, that person is not Jewish. DNA does not determine who is Jewish. It can only give an estimate of which ethnic ancestry a person is likely to have. If a person comes up with genes that appear to be related to those genes that many Jews have, it does not mean they are Jewish. It only means someone in their ancestry may have been Jewish.

Levitylab said...

Gagga, I am also an E1b1b1, specifically E1b1b1a1b at FamilyTreeDNA. My kit # is 159177, and I would like to compare our Y's assuming you also tested with FTDNA. I also have a Levy among my relatives at 23andme, but he is a Y-DNA Q1b, so not related to your line.

Levitylab said...

Gagga, I forgot to mention that I am Dave123 at 23andme, if you also subscribe there.

Derik Brandt said...

You wrote above that, "Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E". That's not possible. If you're J1 then you're not E, and vice versa. You can't be one with a little bit of the other. Perhaps you were trying to write something else.

Derik Brandt said...

You wrote above that, "Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E". That's not possible. If you're J1 then you're not E, and vice versa. You can't be one with a little bit of the other. Perhaps you were trying to write something else.

ESB said...

Hi, I'm confused, my MTDNA test Haplogroup results came back as V2. There is an oral tradition in the family that the tthe women in our family are Jewish, is this correct?

Levitylab said...

ESB, Jewish individuals are in almost every mtDNA and Y haplogroup, but are concentrated in certain haplogroups and their subclades. Mitochondrial haplogroup V undoubtably occurs in the Jewish community, but apparently is not that common, based on the this chart: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n4/fig_tab/5201764t1.html#figure-title

The four mtDNA haplotypes that account for 40% of the total are:

K1a1b1a
K1a9
K2a2a
N1b2

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Thanks, Levitylab. That's a good website. You're right. My paternal grandmother was W from Poland, Jewish, and I see even with Jews she's only 3.1% of their population. Her husband, met in Idaho, is Q1b1a or Q L245 which is 5% of the Jewish males. Interesting how they hooked up. H makes up almost half of all European females, so I'm not surprised with those results but wonder just what the haplogroup is for them other than H.

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Hadassah, this website showing % is that U results depends on location. Among Polish Jews it is 6.3% and with Polish non-Jews it is 16.1%. With Russian and Ukrainiun Jews the % is 7.3 and with non-Jews is 17.9. Jon Entine reports that U is a very large and diverse branch going back 50,000 years ago. About 40% of Europeans have the haplogroup (clade)U5. U2 is most common in India and U6 in North Africa.

jill gee said...

i had my dna tested at '23 and me' and found out my haplogroup is K1a1b1a. the odd thing is that as far as i can go back on my maternal side (4 generations) my great great great grandparents were ukrainian greek catholics from galicia. i have absolutely no known jewish ancestry. my mom was tested for 'family finder' at family tree dna and has few matches, all of which are distant. on 23 and me my relative finder results bare 'few' declared ashkenazi matches, all of my 23 and me matches are distant. this leads me to believe i have no recent jewish ancestry. so, how did i end up with this haplogroup and not be jewish? do i have to have a distant jewish grandmother since i am k1a1b1a??

jill gee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Oliveira said...

Hi, I've discovered that all my surnames are sephardic+one ashkenazy. My Ydna is Eb1b1 and mtdna is u6a1. U6a1 is not jewish but my mother's surnames are all sephardic. Any unputs??

Unknown said...

Haplogroup J2a-M410 in India was found to be largely confined to the castes[20] with no occurrence in the tribals, but a new study has found it at higher percentages (10%) among the Tharu indigenous people of Terai, Nepal.[31] In India, the J2 haplogroup is almost absent from tribals. Haplogroup J2b is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in high frequencies also in the Northwest of India.The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).[20] Haplogroup J was found to be even more common in India's Shia Muslim community, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J2a-M410, 10.6% in J1 and 4.4% in J2b.[32] The high variance of J2b2 in South Asia indicates a probable pre-Neolithic migration.(wikipedia)

Unknown said...

J2

Main article: Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)

Haplogroup J2 It is composed of several sub-Haplogroups representing several different countries like Turkey, Iraq, Kurdistan, Lebanon, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Aegean, Balkan, Italy. One sub Haplogroup M172* is mainly found in the Northern Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean, Iran, Central Asia, and Southern Europe. Is is though to have originated in Anatolia (Turkey and Kurdstan) ie North Mesopotamia, and spread to Europe and to other Middle countries like Lebanon Palestine Iraq, Syria. J2 subclades is found also in Armenia, Azerbaijan), Iran, Central Asia, and South Asia: for example, Muslim Kurds (28.4%), Central Turks (27.9%), Georgians (26.7%), Iraqis (25.2%), Lebanese (25%), Ashkenazi Jews (23.2%), Sephardi Jews (28.6%), Iranians (23.3%), Tajiks (18.4%), and Pakistanis (14.7%). J2 is not regularly found in Semitic-speaking populations of Africa, such as the Amhara and Tigrinya in Ethiopia (Semino et al. 2004). However, J2 has been found to encompass several subhaplogroups (22 subhaplogroups, including 5 that have high frequencies) that originated or expanded in different regions: Italy, the Balkans, the Aegean, Anatolia (Turkey and Kurds), the Caucasus (Georgia), and Somalia (see ref: Semino et al. 2004). Haplogroup J2 was used to be considered a genetic marker of Anatolian Neolithic agriculturalists. It is also very frequent in the Balkans (Greeks 20.6%, Albanians 19.6%) and in southern Italy (16.7-29.1%). Its frequency rapidly drops in the Carpathian basin (Croatians 6.2%, Hungarians 2.0%, Ukrainians 7.3%) and in Southeastern Iranian-speaking areas (Pashtuns 5.2%, Pamiris 6.1%). A significant presence of J2 (J2b2+J2a) was detected in western and south-western India (the highest being 21% among Dravidian middle castes, followed by upper castes, 18.6%, and lower castes 14%; Sengupta et al. 2006).http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29

Unknown said...

Origins

Haplogroup J2 is widely believed to be associated with the spread of agriculture from Mesopotamia.[1][9]

"The main spread of J2 into the Mediterranean area is thought to have coincided with the expansion of agricultural people's during the Neolithic period."[2] The age of J2 has been estimated as 18,500 +/- 3,500 years ago.[1] Its distribution, centered in Western Asia and Southeastern Europe, its association with the presence of Neolithic archaeological artifacts, such as figurines and painted pottery,[21] and its association with annual precipitation have been interpreted as evidence that J2, and in particular its J2a-M410 subclade belonged to the agricultural innovators who followed the rainfall.[22] However, Di Giacomo stressed the role of post-Neolithic migratory phenomenon, specifically that of the Ancient Greeks, as also being important in the dispersal of Hg J2.[7] Haplogroup J2b on the other hand is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in high frequencies also in the Northwest of India.http://www.enotes.com/topic/Haplogroup_J2_%28Y-DNA%29

Unknown said...

J2 B is not from the greeks it is from the indo aryan hittites who mixed with the adites adites are from uz son of Aram son of Shem
Idumeans are the Adites they came from yemen originally


"The descendant`s of Shem settled al Majdal the navel of the earth,which is stuated between Satidama and the sea between the Yemen and syria,God bequethed them prophecy scripture and beauty and gave them complexions that were brown and white from Prophet's and Patriarchs"

Ibn Khaldun



Historian and scholar, Ibn Khaldun also mentions the Thamud several times in his great universal history al-Kitābu l-ʻibār ("Book of Evidence"), but only in passing, seldom giving much information.



Some examples from the Muqaddimah ("Introduction"):





This can be illustrated by what happened among the nations. When the royal authority of 'Ad was wiped out, their brethren, the Thamud, took over. They were succeeded, in turn, by their brethren, the Amalekites. The Amalekites were succeeded by their brethren, the Himyar. The Himyar were succeeded by their brethren, the Tubba's, who belonged to the Himyar. They, likewise, were succeeded, by the Adhwa'. Then, the Mudar came to power.

—Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah Chapter II Bedouin civilization, savage nations and tribes and their conditions of life, including several basic and explanatory statements, 21 As long as a nation retains its group feeling, royal authority that disappears in one branch will, of necessity, pass to some other branch of the same nation ( note amalekites are the Imliq) "

'Imliq is the father of the Amalekites from whom came the berbers,who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin 'Amr bin 'Imliq bin Lud bin Sam(Shem) bin Nuh (Noah)PBH

.prophets and patriarchs

the Imliq are from Adites yes from lud bin shem but they mixed with the adites the first ad came from between al hijr to ubar and the thamud the second ad lived in al hijr to greater part of syria imliq cam after

Unknown said...

Prophet Abraham PBH had a oval shaped face a beautiful curve to his nose bridge which did not make it look hooked or jagged or too big perfect size. he upside down v eyebrows, v hairline and wavy raven black hair his skin tone was a wheat color

Markos said...

If I have a 23% probablity of carrying Y haplotype EM-34 or EM-84 and 33% probablity to carry J1c3d, and given the fact that I am Amhara Orthodox Christian with strong Jewish tradition, is it reasonable to assume that I have 50% probablity to have Jewish ancesstery?

Kardinale said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kardinale said...

How do the Jews went to Poland,Rusia, Ukranie (Eurosia)from Middleast... Ashkenazi Jews can be Khazarian Turks or Turkic-Jewish mix Great Seljuks Dynst were muslim. Names of the dynasty dvided Turkic or non turkic names. The most common nonturkic name are Michael ,David,Solomon, Abraham,Moses in early generations.Later inrease islamic names Muhammed,Mahmud,Ahmed. Sejuks Oghuz Turks were so close Hazarain Turks...

Caranina said...

My son had DNA testing done last year. My DNA side shows J1c. On my mother's side, her mother's maiden name was Harborc. She came from somewhere in what was then Russia--she was born around 1900. Her husband, Adam Wrana, was born probably around 1882-1885, in what was then "Austria". My mother's parents did not speak Russian, German, Czech, or Polish. When we translated some of the phrases my mom remembered hearing her mother speak--they were YIDDISH. But growing up in NY, my mother was sent to Catholic schools by her mother. For some reason, for a long time, I felt like we were of Jewish descent. My mother's family are either all gone now, or scattered (don't know any of my cousins)but years ago when my Dad tried to get her ancestry from them, they were all VERY secretive. I was wondering if anyone could tell me whether or not I might actually be of Jewish descent. BTW, my grandfather (Wrana) looked dark and "swarthy" with a big black mustache, and looked Jewish. My grandmother looked more Eastern European, but had olive skin as well, and dark hair and eyes. I don't know if that's any help or not in understanding all this. Someone please give me your opinion--especially Nadene Goldfoot, if you are still writing on here! THANKS!!

Unknown said...

the cmh is not specific to jews but all descendants of shem Prophet Abraham is not from anatolia he is from Iraq he is chaldean black wavy hair,oval face a beautiful curve to his nose bridge which did not make it look too big hooked or jagged, upside down v eyebrows a v hair he was not caucasian

Unknown said...

how come no one ever mentions the Ad and thamud who are from the line of Aram son of Shem and Prophet Hud and SaaliH PBT are from this line after the thamud the imliq(amorites,Amalek) succeeded them hence the imliq are known as adites the imliq mixed with the hittites Idumeans Edomites

Unknown said...

iraqi kurds are a total of 40% j dna 28.4% j2 and 11.6% j1

Unknown said...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/ go to figure 4 the iraqi kurds are the closest to semitic jews and many of them have semitic features remember Prophet Jonah PBH was sent to Nineveh! also the kurds are from hittite heritage as well as medes and medes had alliance with the chaldeans

Nadene Goldfoot said...

Yes, I've heard that the Kurds have the closest dna to Jews. Looks like Irai Kurds are very close being 40%. Jews were taken by Assyrians there in about 720 BCE , so there must have been some connections going on.

Gagga said...

What is the current theory with E1b1b1 ? Is this group related to Khazarians ? It seems that this group is not an original jewish group as J etc...

Unknown said...

yes but qahtani arabs are cousins to the jews joktan was brother of peleg

Unknown said...

of coarse the adnani arabs would be closest to jews because of Prophet Ismael PBH but also many people forget prophet Hud and SaaliH came before and yes they do have descendants

Unknown said...

well adites are from ad son of aws(uz) son of aram son of shem Prophet Hud is from this line Prophet Saalih is from thamud if i am correct also from aram when thamud perished the remaining sons of aram were known as arman the imliq succeeded the thamud

Unknown said...

Y-DNA Haplogroups in Iraqi Kurdistan



(J2 - 28.4% semitic)

R1b - 16.8%

I - 16.8%

R1a - 11.6%

(J1 - 11.6% semitic)

E1b1b - 7.4%

G - 4.2%

T - 3.2

Unknown said...

In human genetics, Haplogroup J (previously known as HG9 or Eu9/Eu10) is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. It is one of the major male lines of all living men. It is divided into two main branches referred to as J1 and J2. wikipedia))))



The relationship of the five modal haplotypes that were found in the six populations is presented in figure 3. The most-frequent haplotype in all three Jewish groups (the CMH [haplotype 159 in the Appendix]) segregated on a Eu 10 background, together with the three modal haplotypes in Palestinians and Bedouin (haplotypes 144, 151, and 166).((( The dominant haplotype of the Muslim Kurds (haplotype 114) was only one microsatellite-mutation step apart from the CMH and the modal haplotype of the Bedouin, but it belonged to haplogroup Eu 9. )))The three modal haplotypes in the Palestinians and Bedouin were entirely restricted to the two Arab populations. On the other hand, chromosomes with the modal haplotypes of the Jews and of the Muslim Kurds were observed in all the populations except the Bedouin. The three Jewish communities had many additional haplotypes in common with Muslim Kurds (table 3). They shared more haplotypes and chromosomes with Muslim Kurds than with either Palestinians or Bedouin.

Unknown said...

Many Kurds have the "Jewish" Cohen Modal Haplotype

In the 1990s, a team of scientists (including the geneticist Michael Hammer, the nephrologist Karl Skorecki, and their colleagues in England) discovered the existence of a haplotype which they termed the "Cohen modal haplotype" (abbreviated as CMH). Cohen is the Hebrew word for "priest", and designates descendants of Judean priests from two thousand years ago. Initial research indicated that while only about 3 percent of general Jews have this haplotype, 45 percent of Ashkenazic Cohens have it, while 56 percent of Sephardic Cohens have it. David Goldstein, an evolutionary geneticist at Oxford University, said: "It looks like this chromosomal type was a constituent of the ancestral Hebrew population." Some Jewish rabbis used the Cohen study to argue that all Cohens with the CMH had descended from Aaron, a High Priest who lived about 3500 years ago, as the Torah claimed. Shortly after, it was determined that 53 percent of the Buba clan of the Lemba people of southern Africa have the CMH, compared to 9 percent of non-Buba Lembas. The Lembas claim descent from ancient Israelites, and they follow certain Jewish practices such as circumcision and refraining from eating pork, and for many geneticists and historians the genetic evidence seemed to verify their claim.

However, it soon became apparent that the CMH is not specific to Jews or descendants of Jews. In a 1998 article in Science News, Dr. Skorecki indicated (in an interview) that some non-Jews also possess the Cohen markers, and that the markers are therefore not "unique or special".(((((( The CMH is very common among Iraqi Kurds, according to a 1999 study by C. Brinkmann et al.)))))))))) And in her 2001 article, Oppenheim wrote: "The dominant haplotype of the Muslim Kurds (haplotype 114) was only one microsatellite-mutation step apart from the CMH..." (Oppenheim 2001, page 1100). Furthermore, the CMH is also found among some Armenians, according to Dr. Levon Yepiskoposyan (Head of the Institute of Man in Yerevan, Armenia), who has studied genetics for many years. Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin wrote: "The suggestion that the 'Cohen modal haplotype' is a signature haplotype for the ancient Hebrew population is also not supported by data from other populations." (Zoossmann-Diskin 2000, page 156).

In short, the CMH is a genetic marker from the northern Middle East which is not unique to Jews. However, its existence among many Kurds and Armenians, as well as some Italians and Hungarians, would seem to support the overall contention that Kurds and Armenians are the close relatives of modern Jews and that the majority of today's Jews have paternal ancestry from the northeastern Mediterranean region.

Unknown said...

"The descendant`s of Shem settled al Majdal the navel of the earth,which is stuated between Satidama and the sea between the Yemen and syria,God bequethed them prophecy scripture and beauty and gave them complexions that were brown and white from Prophet's and Patriarchs"

Unknown said...

Historian and scholar, Ibn Khaldun also mentions the Thamud several times in his great universal history al-Kitābu l-ʻibār ("Book of Evidence"), but only in passing, seldom giving much information.



Some examples from the Muqaddimah ("Introduction"):





This can be illustrated by what happened among the nations. When the royal authority of 'Ad was wiped out, their brethren, the Thamud, took over. They were succeeded, in turn, by their brethren, the Amalekites. The Amalekites were succeeded by their brethren, the Himyar. The Himyar were succeeded by their brethren, the Tubba's, who belonged to the Himyar. They, likewise, were succeeded, by the Adhwa'. Then, the Mudar came to power.

—Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah Chapter II Bedouin civilization, savage nations and tribes and their conditions of life, including several basic and explanatory statements, 21 As long as a nation retains its group feeling, royal authority that disappears in one branch will, of necessity, pass to some other branch of the same nation ( note amalekites are the Imliq) "

'Imliq is the father of the Amalekites from whom came the berbers,who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin 'Amr bin 'Imliq bin Lud bin Sam(Shem) bin Nuh (Noah)PBH

.prophets and patriarchs


as i said the imliq(amalekites) are adites because they mixed

Markos said...

The CMH gene is undoubtedly the founder of the ancient Jewish root. However, since it is abundant elsewhere we can't be sure, by mere carrying of this haplotype. Rather EM-34, i'e E1b1b1c1 and its descendant EM-84 (E1b1b1c1a) are more realistic, for one to trace its Jewish ancessters.

Unknown said...

cmh is not specific to jewish but to descendants of shem

Ms. Wiseman said...

Is this regarding European Women that converted to Judaism? Before we were exiled, no European women were in the area. We are confused.

Unknown said...

Also I dont know how to say this the Ad ad thamud were before time of Abraham and the Imliq came beforethey are the successors of the ad and thamud they are adites a mix from pe(((When Thamud in turn was destroyed, the remaining sons of Iram were called Arman — they are Nabateans

from Prophets and Patriarchs)))
remember Prophet Saalih and family and those who believed survived also MANY years passed by after the torment that befell the people of 'Ad, and other generations came to succeed them. Among these were the Thamud people who were the successors of the believers who were saved with Prophet Hud. the thamud settled in al hijr they are the second ad Hud descendants mixing with thamud, thamud becoming the second Ad ))))))then imliq Idumeans are the adites! the imliq as i said mixed with two types of hamitic canaanites the phoenicians another branch of the dravidian race and the imliq mixed with another canaanite people like pure aboriginal people of north america these two features are still found in the arabs of jordan, yemen and saudia yes in north africa as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1f3snUpLU north african!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLnHC0LL6Yg north african guy with mustache nice hair if u go to southern india u will see this feature

The origin of the Nabateans remains obscure, but they were Aramaic speakers, and the term "Nabatean" was the Arabic name for an Aramean of Syria and Iraq.ople of Ad bin aws bin Iram

Unknown said...

"Abraham's origins are SE Anatolia which is the origins of the J2 Hapologroup."" he is not from southeast turkey it was southern iraq ur!!
on page 16 of prophets and patriarchs it says "Arphaxad had a son named Nimrod. Nimrod bin Arphaxad whose dwelling was in the vicinity of al hijr also on page 18 i says of another Nimrod .Nimrod bin cush bin canaan bin ham bin Nuh AS not Nimrod bin Cush there are three different Nimrods
also it says this in prophets and patriarchs "Nimrod was son of Cush son Canaan son of Ham son of Noah. He was the lord of Babylon and of Abraham PBH the friend of the Merciful!

Unknown said...

However, the Arab historian Abu al-Hasan 'Alī al-Mas'ūdī, citing 'traditional' Arab history, relates that the Amalekites did indeed exist at this early period having originated in the region of Mecca before the time of Abraham. wikipedia
the time line has to be cleaned then i think people can understand more easy also you have to look at the age that prophet Abraham had Ismael as well as the age he had Isaac who was younger by age i think the Israelites are the youngest nation and coming after the Adnani arabs the arameans migrated into ancient iraq same time and i think it was a mix and i think some people are full of it aramaic was the language of the time why did it have such an influence on other groups

Unknown said...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-0-171CCF09000005DC-546_634x389.jpg arab of jordan haha they said the bediouns resembled johnny depp too funny jonny depp is wearing make up
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z9BgvTzPBCw/T_7hq9osyrI/AAAAAAAABDs/NeYk5GebpFc/s1600/johnny-depp-015-01.jpg this is johnny depp no makeup johnny depp is no arab he looks caucasian and native american

http://www.asianews.it/files/img/bedouin.jpg arabs of jordan
http://www.floraine.org/jordan/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/IMG_7094R-300x200.jpg

Zachary Shumway said...

I am adopted. There was always some question on possible Jewish ancestry. I had the family tree dna testing, but apparently, no Jewish link showed up. Can these links be missed sometimes?? or is this a fairly definite answer? Thank you.

Unknown said...

You know brother dont worry about these things because we are the sons of Adam PBH who was a Prophet PBH, then,Prophet Seth PBH, Prophet Enoch PBH and Prophet Noah PBT the best one is in deeds

jen m. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jen m. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jen m. said...

Nadene,
My mother's grandmother was a Zylensky (sp?) from Poland that I think was Jewish. I just got my family tree mtdna test back and am more confused than ever. I am Haplogroup J and there was something about J1b1a1b. Do I need to do more testing to determine if my great grandmother was Jewish?
Many thanks,
Jen McIntyre

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

my question is are u sure jews are j1?
second time i am saying this is that the israelites as a nation are even younger than the Adnani arabs what i think is that the imliq were successors to the ad and thamud and most likely descendants of Hud and SaaleH AS were in that area where the israelites came to settle after them also the adnani arabs and also the banu Ghassan (qahtani arabs)

Unknown said...

The Chaldeans didn't arrive on the historical scene until a thousand years after Abraham" Prophet Abraham PBH was Chaldean himself! they were not from anatolia this incorrect !http://www.crystalinks.com/chaldeamap.gif . Also j1 is older than j2a and j2b? the Israelites as a nation are younger who would have had interaction with them the arameans ?
arameans and chaldeans migrated into iraq same time i think it was a mix the dwelling place of nimrod bin arfakhshaad was al hijr which is north arabia people are always forgetting Prophet Jonah PBH was sent to Nineveh north iraq where my heritage is from Jonah lived and died there

Unknown said...

i made a mistake true the Israelites as a nation are younger than Adnani Arabs but youngest of the nations of Abraham PBH would be the people of Madyan people of Katurah

Terry Moren said...

Haplogroup: H1, a subgroup of H
Age: 13,000 years
Region: Europe, Near East, Central Asia, Northwestern Africa
Example Populations: Spanish,Berbers,Lebanese
Highlight: H1 appears to have been common in Doggerland, an ancient land now flooded by the North Sea. From 23andMe.com

Sharon Beth said...

Dear Nadene,

I came across your very interesting blog while searching for answers. Many people who post here know more about DNA results than me.

I was raised by my German born Grandmother Ottilie, back in the 60s and 70s. Even though she was very kind to me she was also a puzzle in so many ways. She is not a strange name in a genealogy search. She was a real person to me whose memory I would like to honor.

Her many deep rooted fears of Nazis and the police had a profound affect on me, also. She told me she was the sole surviving member of her family and that they would never be found. Her Bible teaching usually focused on the Old Testament. The food we ate which I thought were German foods were all based on beef fish chicken and lamb. I never knew what ham even was until I saw it in high school. And she drank only Kosher wine, a glass each night with dinner.

But we never spoke of Jews, ever, and these unusual habits aren't proof of anything.

Later, I became an adult and met an Israeli who was a teacher at my daughters school that I realized she may have been Jewish.

I have tried for a long time to trace a member of her family but without success. So of course times being what we're in I also explored DNA testing. But, I don't know if this is actually reliable. There is no way to test any Y DNA because she has no other relatives only descendants. I did a FTDNA test and it showed T haplotype. I would go further than that but don't know if it's worth pursuing. Is it possible to see through DNA that she came from Jewish ancestry?

Thanks for reading this letter. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sharon

Sharon Beth said...

Dear Nadene,

I came across your very interesting blog while searching for my own answers. Many people who post here know more about DNA results than me.

I was raised by my German born Grandmother Ottilie, back in the 60s and 70s. Even though she was very kind to me she was also a puzzle in so many ways. She is not a strange name in a genealogy search. She was a real person to me whose memory I would like to honor.

Her many deep rooted fears of Nazis and the police had a profound affect on me, also. She told me she was the sole surviving member of her family and that they would never be found. Her Bible teaching usually focused on the Old Testament. The food we ate which I thought were German foods were all based on beef fish chicken and lamb. I never knew what ham even was until I saw it in high school. And she drank only Kosher wine, a glass each night with dinner.

But we never spoke of Jews, ever, and these unusual habits aren't proof of anything.

Later, I became an adult and met an Israeli who was a teacher at my daughters school that I realized she may have been Jewish.

I have tried for a long time to trace a member of her family but without success. So of course times being what we're in I also explored DNA testing. But, I don't know if this is actually reliable. There is no way to test any Y DNA because she has no other relatives only descendants. I did a FTDNA test and it showed T haplotype. I would go further than that but don't know if it's worth pursuing. Is it possible to see through DNA that she came from Jewish ancestry?

Thanks for reading this letter. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sharon

Levitylab said...

Sharon:

Yes, the best way to find out if your DNA has any Ashkenazi alleles is to test with 23andme.com They have excellent tools that determine a person's Ashkenazim component down to very small percentages.

Sharon Beth said...

Is there an advantage to 23andme over FTDNA? Is there a larger data base to compare to? Thanks for the reply. :)

Levitylab said...

Sharon:

23andme definitely has much better tools to ferret out various ancestries, including Jewish. FTDNA is still in the Beta stage of their Population Finder feature. In their FAQ section they say that results may change in the future. So, I guess they are going to add more populations at some point.

Right now Population Finder has two broad categories Europe and Middle East; at least that's all I'm showing. If you are subscribed to Population Finder at FTDNA, and you show a significant percentage of Middle East, like maybe 15% or more (just a ballpark guess), then that would be an indication of possible Jewish ancestry, especially, of course, if it only idicates Jewish in the sub-categories.

You could also upload your raw DNA data from FTDNA into Gedmatch.com. They have excellent tools there. For example, the Dodecad V3 tool will show between 12% and 13% Southwest Asian component for those of full Jewish ancestry, and smaller percentages for partial Jewish ancestry. Northwest European descended people, like myself, usually range between 0% and 2%, though some are higher. I'm slightly elevated at 2.7%. Using Gedmatch would save you the 99 dollar cost of testing at 23andme. But, if you can afford it, I would definitely test with 23andme. It's only a one time cost, and I find the threads at 23 to be very interesting and informative.

Sharon Beth said...

Levitylab, you are most helpful. Of course this can get costly, but moreover, it's stressful to look over vague DNA results that yield few answers. If I thought useful information could be gleaned from such tests based on just a single person I would use both companies.
I will begin again with your suggestion. Thanks very much.

Gagga said...

Nadine,

In terms of mtDNA, you do not mention MtDNA HV.

I understand HV predates H and V.

Where does this fit in terms of the jewish groups of mtDNA Haplogroups ?

Theo Smart said...

Thanks,
You don't have to publish this comment, I just think this is refreshing because you aren't an ideologue about things — you seem to embrace the Khazaria conversion for one thing — and I like the imagery of the Jewish people picking up diversity based upon where they have lived, rather than being 'blood pure' or some such racist nonsense.
I have Jewish ancestry on both sides but am not Jewish technically, because my mother's mother was Irish.
My father had long denied knowing there was Jewish ancestry on his mother's side, but there is, and I've been trying to figure out how close it gets to him maternally. I've just had a female cousin (my aunt's daughter) haplotyped and alas, she wasn't a K, she was only an H. But there is still hope I guess.
My father’s grandfather grandfather disowned my grandfather for marrying my grandmother — tried to break up the marriage and ultimately left them out of his inheritance, even though he was good friends and political allies with her father. It has always struck me as a 'blood thing' and indeed, her paternal ancestors were German-Austrian Jewish Colonial folk (coming over shortly before the War of Independence) who kept marrying Jewish for at least a few generations... but I am unsure how far it went. I'm not sure about her mother. My grandmother's parents were not particularly religious. She however went to some tent revival thing and became a member of a rather Germanic protestant sect. For years, I thought that the Wisecups (anglicised from Weiskopfs) had been from this old Moravian Brethren stock, but in the last year, I learned otherwise.
But as I said, I have her haplotype now and it is H.
Anyway, I don't mean to wax romantic about this stuff, it is just that one of my great-grandfather's one each side, disowned their children for marrying wrong (on my mother, the Haas side, it was because he married a Catholic).
So it interests me.
But again, thanks for your site.
Theo Smart

Unknown said...

the assyrians are most likely the imliq why because they mixed with canaanite sumerian/dravidians and the other canaanites were like pure aboriginal people of north america !! amorite are the imliq and the imliq were the ones who succeeded the thamud who by the way are from Prophet HUD PBH the assyrians are the successors to the thamud and mixed with them making the assyrians descendants of Prophet HUD PBH. the thamud came before the time of Prophet Abraham PBH the descendants of Prophet HUD are like the descendants of Prophet Abraham PBT.and the kurds are from the medes and medes mixed with chaldeans thats why On 07/23/13 I dreamt of North Syria area of Hatay and I see Thaqifi people who are from Hud AS and I see them and Banu Haashim standing together wearing white.
In a hadith reported in Sahih Muslim, Muhammad mentions that 'Isa (Jesus) resembles Urwah ibn Mas'ud.[2] closest in appearance. He was very white with reddish cheeks,tall with dark black hair and eyes.wikipedia



The companion who most resembles 'Eesaa (Jesus), may Allaah exalt hi mention, is 'Urwah Ibn Mas’ood . The evidence is the narration reported by Imaams Muslim and At-Tirmithi that Jaabir narrated that the Prophet said: "I was shown the Prophets in front of me, and Moosaa resembles the men of the tribe of Shanu’ah, and I saw ‘Eesaa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), may Allaah exalt their mention, and the person who resembles him most is ‘Urwah Ibn Mas’ood, and I saw Ibraaheem and the person who resembles him most is your companion- referring to himself and I saw Jibreel (the angel Gabriel), and the person who resembles him most is Dihyah.

Unknown said...

on 30/08/12
I have dreamt the greeks and Kurds are same and that the Kurds are from the Edomites (Adites)
on 02/09/12

I dreamt of north africa and the berbers come from the Hittites who come from the Adites MashaaAllaah

==========

on 08/15/12 I dreamt there is no such thing as the amalekites the Imliq are from the Ad

==========

no date 2 times i dreamt the Lydians were in North africa and 1 time they are the Hittites!

==========

on 09/30/12 i dreamt the kurds are from hittite royalty and indians(india)
On 23/09/2013 I dreamt of the Prophet PBH saying the Kurds are from the Chaldeans and he saying they are my people kurds are from indo aryan hittites and also medes

on 10/01/13 m/d/y I dreamt the thamud mixed with the Assyrians
on 20/03/13 I dreamt the thamud are from Prophet HUD PBH
on 20/10/13 I read this from {{{{{{{{Wikipedia "The title and description given by Photius to Thamud indicates that they had a status similar to Qedarites who have been identified as Arabs"}}}}}
MANY years passed by after the torment that befell the people of 'Ad, and other generations came to succeed them. Among these were the Thamud people who were the successors of the believers who were saved with Prophet Hud. Once again, the people of Thamud, deviated from the right path and started to worship idols, and once again, Allah the Most Merciful decided to send them a prophet from amongst themselves to guide them back to the right path. This prophet was Prophet Saleh(SWS).

I dreamt on m/d/y 10/05/12 the Thamud went into India and went into southern India
(((When Thamud in turn was destroyed, the remaining sons of Iram were called Arman — they are Nabateans

from Prophets and Patriarchs)))

The origin of the Nabateans remains obscure, but they were Aramaic speakers, and the term "Nabatean" was the Arabic name for an Aramean of Syria and Iraq.

Unknown said...

According to Arab historians such as Ibn Khaldun and Ali ibn al-Athir, Amalek is a name given to the Amorites and the Canaanites. wikipedia on 02/17/13 i dreamt all the imliq are from Ad

Unknown said...

South Asia

Haplogroup H-M69 is fairly common among populations of India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Pakistan. But the highest frequencies of H-M69 are in India, especially among Dravidians (33%).[5] In Koya speakers (Dravidian tribes) has been found in 71%.[6]

In India, Haplogroup H-M69 has been found in 27.2% (110/405) of a sample of unspecified ethnic composition from southern India.[7][8] Another study has found haplogroup H-M69 in 26.4% (192/728) of an ethnically diverse pool of samples from various regions of India.[3]

In Sri Lanka, Haplogroup H-M69 has been found in 25.3% (23/91) of a sample of unspecified ethnic composition[7][8] and in 10.3% (4/39) of a sample of Sinhalese.[6]

In Nepal, one study has found Haplogroup H-M69 in approximately 12% of a sample of males from the general population of Kathmandu(including 4/77 H-M82, 4/77 H-M52(xM82), and 1/77 H-M69(xM52, APT)) and in 6% of a sample of Newars (4/66 H-M82).[9]

In Pakistan, Haplogroup H-M52 has been found in 4.1% Burusho, 20.5% Kalash, 4.2% Pashtun, and 2.5% other Pakistanis.[10] Another study has found haplogroup H-M69 in approximately 8% (3/38) of a sample of Burusho (also known as Hunza), including 5% (2/38) H-M82(xM36, M97, M39/M138) and 3% (1/38) H-M36.[11]

In Afghanistan, it has been found in 6.1% Pashtun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haplogrupo_H_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG


This haplogroup is found at a high frequency in South Asia particularly H-M69 and H-M52. Outside South Asia H-M82 subgroup is a major paternal founding lineage of Romani people.

Origins

It is a branch of Haplogroup F, and is believed to have arisen in India between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago.[1] Its probable site of introduction is India since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-Chromosome haplogroup of the indigenous paleolithic inhabitants of India, because it is the most frequent Y-haplogroup of tribal populations (25-35%). H-M69 presence in upper castes is around 10%).

Tricotine said...

I am a Sefardi Jew and my MtDNA is T2f2. I was given 72% Jewish and 28% European. My maiden name is Cohen. What do you know about T2f2?

I have a friend who is Ashkenazi and she just got her results: Haplogroup H7.

Now, I don't understand how haplogroup H for women could be Jewish since MtDNA only passes down from mother to daughters and you said that those women were convert to Judaism. How can this show in DNA? Could you explain, please?

Tricotine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tricotine said...

I forgot to mention that I am from France. My grand-parents immigrated there from Salonika and Turkey before WWII.

Sharon Beth said...

In response to Tricotine, I am no longer wondering if I am Jewish because we have discovered an old photograph. It shows the grave of my Grandmother's brother, the epitaph in German script. At his birth date is a Star of David. It appears he survived WWII and died in 1955.
Glad that part is done. But have tested with 23andme also. FTDNA said I too, was T haplotype. Would be interested to see where your research goes and am waiting for the result of mine. Nadene, anything you may know would be very helpful to add.

Tricotine said...

Thank you for your response, Sharon, and 'Mazel tov' on your family discovery! :)

T is a division of the Haplogroup JT so it kind of make sense than Haplogroup T2 is sometime referred too as the Sefardi haplogroup. My ancestors left Spain in 1492 and find asylum in the Ottoman Empire at the time, which also included Salonika.

On my mom's side results give some origins in Tuscany (not the whole Italy though... ?) Hungary and Armenia.

I was looking at my results (HVR1, HVR2 and Coding Region) last night and noticed that I have more mutations in the Haplogroup H than in the T yet Family Tree DNA told me I was T2f2...

Also, I found a mutation in the Haplogroup J1c2blb. How is this possible since I am not a male? My father is Cohen J1, could it be possible that I inherited that gene from him somehow?

Tricotine said...

This is very intriguing... :)

hleej3 said...

Hello all. I recently received results of my Chromo2 mtDNA (motherline) and the results show Haplogroup K with subtype K1a1b1a. Markers include 16224C 16311C 16519C 73G 263G 497T among others. I have researched what some of this means but am seeking further advice as to how this confirms any Jewish heritage that I may have. Any comments are appreciated. Thank you.

Anna said...

It's true jewish law says the jew only counts through the mother, however that is the only way short of DNA to confirm a bloodline. Ie just because someone is married to your mother it doesn't mean they are your father. My daughter is j1c1 I am waiting for my results. I know my father is Sephardic 100%, my grandfather told the stories of how our ancestors traveled from Israel to the Spain Italy area only to be persecuted and driven away. He said we are from peretz. My mother however is unknown. There has been hints she is Ashkenazi I hope this DNA tells me.

Anna said...

Also Abraham was a direct ancestor of the sons of Jacob not a decendent. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, then the 12 sons who became the 12 tribes.

Sharon Beth said...

Thank you for the kind words Tricotine! The maternal haplotype is T2a. If I had been forced to rely on DNA I don't think this would have been helpful. I can see from previous posts that there are others out there who are also trying to get some peace of mind, looking for proof they are Jewish. Although there appears to be a T link, it is T2e? We think our family are Sephardic Jews. I was very fortunate that we got help from two amazing German Jewish researchers. I wasn't able, by myself, to do the computer enhanced imagery and also reading old German script on photos. We also did detailed searches of immigration records which showed that my mother's entire family was Jewish. Both Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles. I'm sorry to digress from the DNA subject, but I added this just so people who are still searching can have hope. It took me fifty years to finally know for sure they were Jewish. They all went to old age, and then their graves without telling a soul.

andre' leibee said...

hello nadine. i am finding your webpage very interesting. i have found out recently that my maternal dna is haplogroup J1c3e2. i have found on the pie chart on my ftdna page that under the eurogenes j-test it shows a small amount of ashkenazi jew in my ethnicity. so i assume this is something jewish showing up from my mother. i have also recently found out that there is great possibility that there is another jewish source for what is on my pie chart and though i do not have conclusive paper trail i have discovered the surname katz on my father's side. his mother's maiden was catt but found out that an older relative remembered when the catt name was changed from katz. i found this:

(As a Jewish surname, Katz is an abbreviation formed from the Hebrew initials of the term Kohen Tzedeq (Hebrew: כּ״ץ‎), meaning "priest of justice"/"authentic priest" or Kohen Tzadok meaning the name-bearer is of patrilineal descent of the Kohanim sons of Zadok.)

on my paternal origins map on my ftdna page i found sw germany-in particular wuertemberg-was pin-pointed and have found out that wuertemberg germany was the birthplace of a man named katz who immigrated to america. so that bit of circumstancial evidence is perhaps pointing to another jewish source in my dna if i am gathering from this correctly.

so if i may ask your opinion...would katz/catt y-dna be considered J1-J1c3 too?

Unknown said...

Spanish omly get their heritage from berbers , greeks and romans all have assyrian heritage assyrians are people of aws