Jewish Haplogroups: What Are They?
By Nadene Goldfoot
First, Jews make up less than 1% of the world population today. There are people who have the genes we carry that are not Jewish.They could be any of the haplogroups found today, but there are some that are more prevalent than others.
Update: 6/2/14-a video on Jewish DNA to come back to and watch from 2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV619rQus1s&list=PLgHUqrFleJ0WBn0rs_sjLbnqz_-bysVnG&index=2
J1: (J M267) Abraham and Sarah came from Ur, which was in what is now Iraq. The majority of Ashkenazie Jewish men fall into the Y haplogroup of J. Aaron, Moses’s brother, was the first Cohen, and Cohens are an inherited position and responsibility. Cohens have been found to be J1 and J2. J2a2; J-M172; J-M92 (J2a4b1) are Jewish DNA haplogroups. One only has to have the 12 alleles tested to have the J-M267 tag. which is the Cohen line. Remember, our history says that Abraham gave birth to Ishmael through the Egyptian princess handmaiden, Hagar belonging to Sarah, and to Isaac through Sarah, making the lines of Arabs and Jews.
Update 10/7/16 J-M267 on ftdna testing on Arabs: 1 exact match out of 678 tested of United Arab Emirates; Syria Arab Republic-1 out of 341 tested; Saudi Arabia 1 out of 4619 tested, Morocco-2 out of 192 tested; Israel-3 out of 199 tested but 2 were Ashkenazi Jews.
This haplogroup is found to have arisen 10,000 to 15,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, and Abraham was born only about 4,000 years ago. He is mentioned in Genesis, living in about the 2nd millennium BCE. His father was Terah and was unhappy with his life in Ur in about 2,000 BCE. and left Ur, which was part of the Sumerian civilization. Besides Jews, Arabs, Armenians and Kurds are found in this haplogroup. Interestingly, Kurds are still living in Iraq, even though Saddam Hussein gassed many of them. Kurds have the closest dna to most Jewish men.The highest frequencies are in Iran and Iraq. It was carried by traders into Europe, Central Asia, India, and Pakistan. Most likely traders could have been Jews, who became involved in such endeavors.
Update: 4/29/14: There is a J1c3 which seems to be the oldest found. It used to be called J1e, In the website-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victar/Haplogroup_J1c3_(Y-DNA), they said that 30% of Yemenite Jews have the haplogroup of J1c3 or P58, as it is also called. As I see it, J1c3 was the original or oldest, going back 9,000 to 10,000 years J1c3d is a subgroup of it. The J1 SNP of L859 tells if you are an Arab Hashimite.
Information from a Hashimite friend:
The ancestor of J1c3 is J1c, and the you're right about it that J1c3d is the descendant of J1c3
It was known as J1e until February 2010 when a number of mutations were discovered in the J1 tree that made a change in nomenclature necessary.
Haplogroup J-P58 originally called J1e.
Haplogroup J1c3, defined by the P58 marker is most frequent in Yemen-Saudi (65%) It is also very common among other Arabs such as those of the Levant, i.e. Palestinian (38.5%), Syria (30%), Lebanon (25%). In Jewish populations, J1c3 constitutes 30% of the Yemenite Jews, 20.0% of Ashkenazi results, and 12% of Sephardi results
Update 6/16/14: There is a J1c3 that is an mtDNA haplogroup, and there is a J1c3 Ydna haplogroup that is also referred to as P58. 23&Me uses this for mtDNA, and FTDNA uses it for YDNA. This can be very confusing. Also, when you transfer your tests, the companies do not list your haplogroups, only the company doing the original testing.
But the chances are high that Abraham and father were J1c3, but Noah could have been J1c. J1c3d Arabs/israelites are the direct descendants of Abraham in that case.
There is a J2 which is associated with the spread of agriculture during the Neolithic Period from Anatolia, and this is found in central Asia, the Mediterranean, and south into India. Ashkenazi Jews have 15-23% of J2. Sephardi Jews have 15-23% of J2. Evidence from case studies is presented that allows the definition of a new subclade of Y Haplogroup J2b-M102. The defining binary polymorphism of the new subclade is a deletion event in the Y-
J-M172; J-M267 has been found in men with the surnames of Cohen.
J2a4b is a German Jewish line, part of J-M67.
J2a4 or -L26, has a Lisbon, Portugal person, so it must be Sephardic.
Update: J2a4 is now found to be from Zadok, high priest-ancestor of Aaron.
J1-P58 is found in both Ashkenazi and Sephardi to be from Aharon (Aaron) with J1-Z18271 as the Cohen factor with others coming from this. (acadamia paper) J2 is older than J1.
G: 7% of Ashkenazies are in the G, and G2 haplogroup. and G-2a. This may have originated along the eastern part of the Middle East or India or Pakistan 30,000 years ago and dispersed into central Asia, Europe and the Middle East. G with a P15 mutation is found mainly in the Caucasus, Balkans, Italy and the Middle East.
Update: 5/10/2012-Types of Jewish G may have come from Khazaria.
Update: 10/27/15-Jewish G2c might have originated 770-1100 years ago, most likely in Italy. (A.Z.resource through R. B. of G group)
9/13/16 G-M377 is one of the Ashkenazi haplogroups.
Q1b1: 5% of Ashkenazi Jewish men are found to be Q1b, of which is my father’s haplogroup (Q1b1a or Q-L245) and the latest is called Q-Y2200, updated to Q-BZ67. Q originated in Central Asia 15,000 to 20,000 years ago and the men migrated through northern Eurasia into the Americas. Q3 became Native Americans coming from a mutation that happened 8,000 to 12,000 years ago. Q1b’s are from the Altai Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and parts of Turkey. Khazaria may be the home of Q1b’s, and therefore these men could be part of the Ashina Royal Dynasty. Their common ancestor was a man 1,000 years ago. New Q SNP test results in: Q-L245 is Ashkenazi, Q-Y2780=ca 1400 CE; Q-&Ip1071=ca 700 CE, Q-&Ip1010-11 YP1008=800 CE, Q-&P1009=1400 CE ;
4/21/10: P.S.Now we're not positive if Q1b comes from Khazaria though if I had to bet I'd bet that it is. It hasn't been accepted by the main body of scientists who decide such things. To me it's the most logical place, but we have no actual proof. We need more, perhaps several bodies with teeth that could be tested for the Ydna from Khazaria. Most likely the population of Khazaria was made up of a mixture of people from various haplogroups, but it's the Royal family that we're hoping to turn out to be Q1b's as the Royal family converted to Judaism but did not force their people to convert.
Researcher: Prof. Alfred Krupa: " As for my Ashina of Khazaria certification, it has been issued by the largest genetic company IGENEA of Zurich, after agreement from the worlds largest genetic company FTDNA of Houston. Bennett Greenspann has been advised about all elements of formal papers and my own research,and approved such conclusion".
Update: 5/10/2012 Q1b1 is losing out in being considered as coming from the Royal family of Khazaria. DNA expert Rebekah Canada reports that they're thinking maybe G types and R1a1a types more likely candidates.
Double Update: 5/10/2012 from Rebekah Canada:
Updated on SNPs 5/26/16 to Q-BZ67.
Is Q-L245 found in modern Arab populations? Yes
Is Q-L245 found in modern Anatolian populatons? Yes
Is Q-L245 found in modern Iran and Iraq? Yes
Is Q-L245 found from the modern locations of the Ancient city of Ur down to the tip of Saudi Arabia and Oman? Yes
Does that cover the places where ancient Israel, Judah, and Sumaria were? Yes.
Q, Q-L245 or Q1b1a, now Q-BZ67 is the haplogroup of my father's line. This is very exciting news today because Abraham came from Ur, and this gives me the theory that he may also have been of this group. Whereas Moses and Aaron may have been of the J1 haplogroup, that doesn't necessarily mean Abraham had to as well. Without a time machine and a test kit in it, we're left to theorize intelligently.
Update: 7/7/13: Sorry, I did a tree from the Torah's information and Abraham would have been the direct descendant of Jacob's 12 sons. So Moses would have been directly from Abraham. Moses was of the Tribe of Levi. Moses was the 6th generation from Abraham directly or his 3rd great grandson.
Update: 5/29/12; The latest news for our group is that our origins were around Pakistan and India this must include the Assyrian Empire. Mesopotamia was a part of Assyria, and in that empire sits Ur, which is located today in northern Iraq. This Semitic Akkadian Kingdom was from the 25th century BCE down to 608 BCE from the upper Tigris River in Northern Mesopotamia.
Update: 7/7/13: Sorry, I did a tree from the Torah's information and Abraham would have been the direct descendant of Jacob's 12 sons. So Moses would have been directly from Abraham. Moses was of the Tribe of Levi. Moses was the 6th generation from Abraham directly or his 3rd great grandson.
Update: 5/29/12; The latest news for our group is that our origins were around Pakistan and India this must include the Assyrian Empire. Mesopotamia was a part of Assyria, and in that empire sits Ur, which is located today in northern Iraq. This Semitic Akkadian Kingdom was from the 25th century BCE down to 608 BCE from the upper Tigris River in Northern Mesopotamia.
Some Western Jews belong to Q-M378 as well. Q-M378's subbranch Q-
L245's subclades Q-Y2200 and Q-YP1035 are the only varieties of
haplogroup Q that are found in Ashkenazi Jews. Citizen scientists found
that some Sephardic Jews carry different subclades of Q-L245, including
Q-BZ3900, Q-YP745, and Q-YP1237. hen we first started we were bewildered men of northern European descent most of us with a Jewish heritage who were members of Haplogroup Q. If we paid the extra money and had our SNPs tested we found that in addition to the M242 SNP that put us into Haplogroup Q we also had SNP P36.2 which put us into subgroup Q1* but this was pretty much meaningless for us.
R, R1, R2, R1a, R1b haplogroups are believed to have originated in NW Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. R1 is very common in Europe and Western Eurasia. R2 is rare and found only in Indian, Iranian and central Asian populations. R1a is most common among eastern European Slavs and populations in India and central and western Asia. It was thought to be the Khazarian Jewish lineage. They most likely originated in the Eurasian steppes north of the Black and Caspian seas in the Kurgan people who lived there around 3000 BCE and known for the domestication of the horse.
Update: 5/10/2012: Subtypes of R1a1 may have come from Khazaria.
Update 6/25/15: R1a1, R1b, and R1a1a or R1a-CTS6 is the Levite haplogroup. Read www.levitedna.org. for more information. Jeff Wexler discovered this line of Ashkenazi Levites. Analyses posted here. R1a1 is common among Ukrainians-thought to have originated there, Russians, and Serbs (Slavic speakers in Germany, as well as among Central Asian populations with admixture possible with Ukrainians, Poles or Russians.
A later 2005 study by Nebel et al., found a similar level of 11.5% of male Ashkenazim belonging to R1a1a (M17+), the dominant Y-chromosome haplogroup in Central and Eastern Europeans.; R-M269; R1b1a2a; R-V88 are found among Jews. R-L47-from R1a, Jewish
Over time though, new branches have been discovered. Some of these clearly define Jewish branches on the Q tree. Others pose ongoing questions that must be answered with additional testing and research.
Branch Paths
This is what we know about Jewish Q branches so far. Note that when we specify a group within the Jewish Diaspora we are only reporting where the branch is most common today.Q-Y2232
This branch is primarily found in the modern Ashkenazi Jewish population. For those with Ashkenazi Jewish oral traditions, our definitive SNP appears to Q-Y2232. Other Jewish Diaspora Q branches seem to come from elsewhere on the Q tree. They likely came into the Jewish population separately from Q-Y2232. Immediately above Q-Y2232 is Q-Y2200. It is unclear right now how and when those who are Q-Y2200 but not Q-Y2232 are related to their Ashkenazi Jewish cousins.
Behar and others published a scientific paper January 2004 found 5.22% of Ashkenazi Jewish men to have the P36 marker (a SNP downstream from M242 and upstream from M378) whereas among the non-Jewish neighbors there was only 0.3% had this SNP. It now appears that many of us also have another SNP downstream from M378, the L245. As the results from additional testing become known we will share that information.
12/27/23: We analyzed 47 fully sequenced Y-chromosomes and reconstructed the haplogroup
Q3 phylogenetic tree idetail. Haplogroup Q3-L275, derived from the oldest known split within Eurasian/American Hap- hllogroup Q, most likely occurred in West or Central Asia in the Upper Paleolithic period. During the Mesolithic and
Neolithic epochs, Q3 remained a minor component of the West Asian Y-chromosome pool and gave rise to five branches
(Q3a to Q3e), which spread across West, Central and parts of South Asia. Around 3-4 millennia years ago.
Phylogeography of human Y-chromosome haplogroup Q3-L275 from an academic/ citizen science collaboration by Vladimir Guriuanov
4 millennia ago (Bronze Age), the Q3a branch underwent a rapidexpansion, splitting into seven branches, some of which entered Europe. One of these branches, Q3a1, was acquired by apopulation ancestral to Ashkenazi Jews and grew within this population during the 1st millennium AD, reaching up to 5%in present day Ashkenazi.
R, R1, R2, R1a, R1b haplogroups are believed to have originated in NW Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. R1 is very common in Europe and Western Eurasia. R2 is rare and found only in Indian, Iranian and central Asian populations. R1a is most common among eastern European Slavs and populations in India and central and western Asia. It was thought to be the Khazarian Jewish lineage. They most likely originated in the Eurasian steppes north of the Black and Caspian seas in the Kurgan people who lived there around 3000 BCE and known for the domestication of the horse.
Update: 5/10/2012: Subtypes of R1a1 may have come from Khazaria.
Update 6/25/15: R1a1, R1b, and R1a1a or R1a-CTS6 is the Levite haplogroup. Read www.levitedna.org. for more information. Jeff Wexler discovered this line of Ashkenazi Levites. Analyses posted here. R1a1 is common among Ukrainians-thought to have originated there, Russians, and Serbs (Slavic speakers in Germany, as well as among Central Asian populations with admixture possible with Ukrainians, Poles or Russians.
A later 2005 study by Nebel et al., found a similar level of 11.5% of male Ashkenazim belonging to R1a1a (M17+), the dominant Y-chromosome haplogroup in Central and Eastern Europeans.; R-M269; R1b1a2a; R-V88 are found among Jews. R-L47-from R1a, Jewish
Update: R-M17: Levites carry this , not from ancestral Hebrew population, did not resemble other Y chromosomes from the Jewish population studied. From Slavic source, 1,000 years ago, if not from Sorbs or Belarusians ancestors, could be from Khazars-Turkish empire.
Update:9/19/19 https://www.academia.edu/13830064/Phylogenetic_applications_of_whole_Y-chromosome_sequences_and_the_Near_Eastern_origin_of_Ashkenazi_Levites?email_work_card=view-paper
R1b is the most common haplogroup in Europe and expanded throughout after the last ice age, 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. It contains the Atlantic Modal Haplotype. R1b formed from a group that emigrated from Africa 50,000 years ago and eventually settled in Europe in the last 30,000 years. It has high frequencies among the Welsh, Basques, Irish, English, Portuguese, French and Dutch. It's occurrence among Ashkenazi Jews may be an indicator of admixture that happened at the time of Jewish residence in the Rhine Valley prior to migration to Eastern Europe. Prevalent among the Marronite Christian community in Lebanon and represents establishment of European enclave in Lebanon by religious Crusaders in 11th -13th centuries.
R-M269 (R1b...) It's a Galicia- Ashkenazi haplogroup, and not that common. This is found in low frequencies in Europe, Central Asia and Central Asia. It is thought it moved from Europe into Asia. It is found in Armenia, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Turkey and Ukraine. In some cases, major downstream mutations such as M269 are used to identify R1b, especially in regional or out-of-date studies Update: 4/30/15
Update 5/15/15 The surname of Cohen has found an R-M269 haplogroup.
R-M124.(R2a) developed 25,000 years ago in Central Asia, the 2nd wave of migration in India; ..from Ashkenazi in Ukraine
Update:9/19/19 https://www.academia.edu/13830064/Phylogenetic_applications_of_whole_Y-chromosome_sequences_and_the_Near_Eastern_origin_of_Ashkenazi_Levites?email_work_card=view-paper
R1b is the most common haplogroup in Europe and expanded throughout after the last ice age, 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. It contains the Atlantic Modal Haplotype. R1b formed from a group that emigrated from Africa 50,000 years ago and eventually settled in Europe in the last 30,000 years. It has high frequencies among the Welsh, Basques, Irish, English, Portuguese, French and Dutch. It's occurrence among Ashkenazi Jews may be an indicator of admixture that happened at the time of Jewish residence in the Rhine Valley prior to migration to Eastern Europe. Prevalent among the Marronite Christian community in Lebanon and represents establishment of European enclave in Lebanon by religious Crusaders in 11th -13th centuries.
R-M269 (R1b...) It's a Galicia- Ashkenazi haplogroup, and not that common. This is found in low frequencies in Europe, Central Asia and Central Asia. It is thought it moved from Europe into Asia. It is found in Armenia, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Turkey and Ukraine. In some cases, major downstream mutations such as M269 are used to identify R1b, especially in regional or out-of-date studies Update: 4/30/15
Update 5/15/15 The surname of Cohen has found an R-M269 haplogroup.
R-M124.(R2a) developed 25,000 years ago in Central Asia, the 2nd wave of migration in India; ..from Ashkenazi in Ukraine
R-M207: Y-haplogroup R-M207 is common throughout Europe, South Asia and Central Asia (Kayser 2003). It also occurs in the Caucasus and Siberia. Some minorities in Africa also carry subclades of R-M207 at high frequencies.
While some indigenous peoples of The Americas and Australasia also feature high levels of R-M207, it is unclear whether these are deep-rooted, or an effect of European colonisation during the early modern era.
It's been found in the Lithuania=Poland-Ukraine area in Jewish population. R (R-M207)
Haplogroup R* Y-DNA (xR1,R2) was found in 24,000-year-old remains from Mal'ta in Siberia near Lake Baikal.[4] In 2013, R-M207 was found in one out of 132 males from the Kyrgyz people of East Kyrgyzstan.[8]
E, (E1b1b1) whose name was then changed to E-M35. Another line on the same level was E-M35.1 which is now being called E-L117, and E-M84 of Berber origins. E1b1b1-m35 is now Z830 cluster B or E-Z830-B. This is the haplogroup of Albert Einstein whose ancestor was Naphtali Hirsh Einstein b: 1733-d: 1799.
E1b1b1c1a is now called M84. About 4% of Jews are of M84. E3b, mentioned by Harry Ostrer in Legacy,
Update 6/27/17
Originally from Africa 50,000 years ago it was thought, now more likely the Middle East, shares common ancestry with haplogroup D. It has groups in Africa and the Middle East. Some clades are also found in Europe among those living near the Mediterranean, believe to represent the ancient genetic influence from the Middle East to Europe.20% of Ashkenazi Jews are E1b1b.
Haplogroup E1b1b1 is a very Jewish line. (from Albert Benhamou) added 5/2/2012 Albert Einstein belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1b2* E-Z830, with a sample taken from a paternal descendants of Naphtali Hirsch Einstein. Also, According to a genetic study in December 2012, Ramesses III, second Pharaoh of the Twentieth Dynasty and considered to be the last great New Kingdom king to wield any substantial authority over Egypt, belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1a, mainly found in sub-saharan Africa. He of course was not Jewish but Jews lived in Egypt for 400 years as slaves. Added 2/15/13.
E-M35.1 now called (E-L117) is the 2nd most frequent haplogroup found in Jewish families. This is the same as E1b1b1 that Einstein had. It's just been given a newer title. 18% to 20% of Ashkenazi Jews carry this and 8.6 % to 30% of Sephardi Jews carry it. It is the 2nd highest haplogroup found in Jewish men after J1. "The E1b1b1 men claiming to be Levites may have existed in Israel before the Diaspora of 70 CE.
"E1b1b1 may have arisen instead of Africa, in the Near East or the Middle East 20,000 years ago and then expanded into the Mediterranean with the spread of agriculture. E-M35, the most current group of E1b1b1 includes the individuals with no known sub-clade mutations (who are therefore said to be in the "ancestral state" referred to as E1b1b1 or E-M35) and now we have the E-L117."
Men with surnames of Cohen are also found to have E-M96; E-L117 as haplogroups.
Updated 7/22/15
UPdated 7/23/15 18-20% of E-L117 make up Ashkenazi and 8.6-30% of Sephardi population, 2nd largest to J1's Cohen gene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPjkfCGz2k
http://www.e1b1b1-m35.info/2011/02/e1b1b1-jewish-haplogroup.html
E3b may have evolved in the Middle East before going into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It’s found in many Arab populations and in areas around the Mediterranean. It’s in East and North Africa among the Berbers and in SE Europe. The Cohen Samaritans are found with E3b due to an admixture event. The Lemba's of South Africa have 2.9% of E3b. Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E.
E1b1b1c1a is now called M84. About 4% of Jews are of M84. E3b, mentioned by Harry Ostrer in Legacy,
Update 6/27/17
Originally from Africa 50,000 years ago it was thought, now more likely the Middle East, shares common ancestry with haplogroup D. It has groups in Africa and the Middle East. Some clades are also found in Europe among those living near the Mediterranean, believe to represent the ancient genetic influence from the Middle East to Europe.20% of Ashkenazi Jews are E1b1b.
Haplogroup E1b1b1 is a very Jewish line. (from Albert Benhamou) added 5/2/2012 Albert Einstein belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1b2* E-Z830, with a sample taken from a paternal descendants of Naphtali Hirsch Einstein. Also, According to a genetic study in December 2012, Ramesses III, second Pharaoh of the Twentieth Dynasty and considered to be the last great New Kingdom king to wield any substantial authority over Egypt, belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1a, mainly found in sub-saharan Africa. He of course was not Jewish but Jews lived in Egypt for 400 years as slaves. Added 2/15/13.
E-M35.1 now called (E-L117) is the 2nd most frequent haplogroup found in Jewish families. This is the same as E1b1b1 that Einstein had. It's just been given a newer title. 18% to 20% of Ashkenazi Jews carry this and 8.6 % to 30% of Sephardi Jews carry it. It is the 2nd highest haplogroup found in Jewish men after J1. "The E1b1b1 men claiming to be Levites may have existed in Israel before the Diaspora of 70 CE.
"E1b1b1 may have arisen instead of Africa, in the Near East or the Middle East 20,000 years ago and then expanded into the Mediterranean with the spread of agriculture. E-M35, the most current group of E1b1b1 includes the individuals with no known sub-clade mutations (who are therefore said to be in the "ancestral state" referred to as E1b1b1 or E-M35) and now we have the E-L117."
Men with surnames of Cohen are also found to have E-M96; E-L117 as haplogroups.
Updated 7/22/15
UPdated 7/23/15 18-20% of E-L117 make up Ashkenazi and 8.6-30% of Sephardi population, 2nd largest to J1's Cohen gene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPjkfCGz2k
http://www.e1b1b1-m35.info/2011/02/e1b1b1-jewish-haplogroup.html
E3b may have evolved in the Middle East before going into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It’s found in many Arab populations and in areas around the Mediterranean. It’s in East and North Africa among the Berbers and in SE Europe. The Cohen Samaritans are found with E3b due to an admixture event. The Lemba's of South Africa have 2.9% of E3b. Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E.
I haplogroup is found in Scandinavia and Croatia with some in the Middle East, which most likely is the source. This was probably very common in the Viking populations.
T haplogroup; I have just found 2 Jewish men with this haplogroup; T-M70, with the same surname. T1a1 clusters along an east-west axis from Iran to Spain. T1a2 is found both in northern Europe and southern Africa but is rarer in the eastern and western edges of T's distribution zone. To date, T1a3 has only been found in Kuwait. Something to do with phoenecian sea farers., could have been carried by phoencians, found in Lebanon.
Jewish women fall under Mitochondrial Haplogroups.
Bryan Sykes had found 7 major mitochondrial lineages for modern Europeans but other now put the numbe at 10-12. The added daughters include I, M and W. The European haplogroups are now remapped as H, J, K, N1, T, U4, U5, V, X and W.
K: 33 1/3 % of Jewish women are in the K (Katrina) haplogroup. It’s a sub-branch of U haplogroup which first appeared in the Holocene Epoch after the last glacial maximum when people went into Europe. It’s low among non-Jews except for Druze. There are 4 main sub-divisions of K amongst Jews, unique just to Jews. K is 6% European and 15K Years before the present, meaning I think 15,000-25,000 years ago and originated in N. Italy. (Mitochondrial DNA haplogroup K is itself many thousands of years old. There are several branches that are found in Jewish populations. The one with the highest frequency is:
K1a1b1a. then kaa9 or K1a9, k2a2a. This high percentage points to a genetic bottleneck occurring some 100 generations ago. Ashkenazi mtDNA K clusters into three subclades seldom found in non-Jews: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. Thus it is possible to detect three individual female ancestors, likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool, whose descendants lived in Europe.(upgraded 10/5/13.in searching Syrian Jewish mtdna.) Many Jewish people came into Syria from the 1492 Spanish Inquisition. There were Jews in Syria before that group had entered as well. origin=16,000 years ago in Near East
Rachel 's comment, Haplogroup K is super
common. One study found 32% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from
three women in Haplogroup K.On my paternal side, 3 of my great great grandmothers are in
Haplogroup K and the 4th is Haplogroup W.
H: 21% of Jewish women are H (Helena) haplogroup. There are unique characteristics in H among Jews not found in non-Jews. However, this is found in half of European women’s ancestry besides being common in North Africa and the Middle East. It’s linked to population expansion about 20,000 -30,000 years ago and originated in the Caucasus or Europe. As Jewish men journeyed, they married non-Jewish women who converted, especially in the beginnings of their wanderings. H is 47% European and originated in Southern France. It is the largest haplogroup for women. added 6/15/11: I've found an Ashkenazi Jewish woman who is H7, and feels she is 100% Ashkenazi. This may be the line mentioned above with the unique characteristics. I'm not sure.
HV: 40,000 years ago in the Near East HVO 4.1% to Jewish group: H6a1a (H1b1-T16362C)
H: over 35,000 years ago in the Near East or southern Europe, 20.5% to Jewish group
H1b: 13,000 years ago in Europe
H3:10,000 years ago in western Europe
H2a1 is my mt haplogroup. My grandmother came from Lumsheden, Sweden.
N: 75,000 years ago in NE Africa; N1b: 10% of Jewish women are N1b., one of the NE African lineages and thought to have originated in Africa 50,000- 60,000 years ago. It’s common in the Middle East and main source of various European female groups including B,F, H, J, R, T, and U.
N: 75,000 years ago in NE Africa
J: 7% of Jewish women are found to be J1, (Jasmine) which originated about 40,000-45,000 years ago in Near East or Caucasus/ central Asia and is associated with the spread of farming and herding in Europe during the Neolithic Period beginning 10,000 years ago. It’s common in the Middle East and among Jews. J2 is localized in the Mediterranean. J is 17% European originating in the Middle East about 10,000 years ago and is the 2nd largest haplogroup for women. Another J listed is 5% European originating in N. Spain about 17,000 years ago.
J, J1, J1a: 27,000 years ago in Near East; J1b: 23,000 years ago in Near East; J2 originated about 45,000 years ago in central Asia and during the Neolithic Period were associated with the spread of farming and herding in Europe. It's common in the Middle East, Europe, the Caucasus, North Africa and among Jews. J1c7a.
Found in northern Italy and Anatolia of Near East. J2 is more localized in the Mediterranean. Update: J2 seems to be coming from Phonecians. J1 is about 7% of MT in Jews. Latest resource includes Canaanites and Phonecians as J2. Both were assimilated into the Jewish Tribes during the entering of Canaan. 30% Jews have J2.
Update: 4/5/16: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267 J M267 is found in Jews of Cohens at 46.0%. It's also common with the Arabs. Syrian Arabs are found to have 33.6%, and Sunnis from Hama at 47.2%. Ismailis from Damascus are found to have 58.5%.
W (Wilma) is a small group that appears in the western Ural Mountains, the natural border between Europe and Asia and the eastern Baltic area, and is also found in India. This is what my Polish/Lithuania grandmother turned out to be. Not all W’s are Jewish, of course. It occurred first about 20,000-25,000 years ago in NE Europe or NW Asia. It is figured that 1.8 million carry W in Poland, and 2.7 million carry it in Russia. It's found all over the world. Its highest frequency is in Ukraine, European Russia, Baltic countries and Finland (3 to 5% overall), as well as in northern Pakistan (15%), Punjab (9%) and Gujarat (12%). In Indian it is considerably more common among the upper castes and among Indo-European speakers. Actually, 14 types are found in Ashkenazie Jews that were found by Behar, main researcher in dna of the Jewish people. My grandmother was W 16145A, 16223T, 16265G, 16519C. Jewish W made up 3.1% in a test in Poland and 2.7% in Russia and te Ukraine. http://www.thecid.com/where.htm, contributed about 1.6% to Jewish group
It is thought that Ashkenazi Jews descend from four Jewish women today. They are thought to be from pre-historic Europe. ( Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus). N is one of the lines.
Behar thinks there was a bottleneck in Ashkenazic populations. This means that a large population experienced a sudden extreme population decline followed by renewed growth. The result was that almost half of Europe’s Jews were descended from just four women who lived 1,000 years ago.
A new fact has emerged about dna. It’s called the AMOVA phenomenon. It means that the environment makes the initial changes in DNA and then heredity transmits them. There is a Middle East type AMOVA and a European type and these types cut across haplogroup distinctions. This phenomenon is still in discussion.
What I find interesting is that my grandfather, from Lithuania, was a Q1b with origins in the Altai Mountains and he met and married my grandmother in Council, Idaho, a mountain mining town. Her origins were in the Ural Mountains, and she came from Lithuania/Suwalki, Poland. They then moved to Portland, Oregon.
So now I believe that Abraham was in the J or J1haplogroup . Moses and of course his brother Aaron were J1. So was Ishmael, Abraham’s first son by Hagar, the Egyptian handmaid of Sarah who became the father of the Arabs.
In my opinion only, as for Sarah, she could have been a J or J2 . Hagar, the Egyptian could have been N, or H.
Update from Alfred Krupa 12/23/14, our Q1b1a cousin
I wonder all the time how we Jews are made up of several haplogroups other than J1, the Cohen gene from Aaron, Moses's brother. After all, Abraham must have had J1, and of course Isaac and Jacob and all the rest of the males born to them. They settled in Canaan. Here's what could have happened besides the others that came along with the family in the Exodus. Some haplogroups could have come from the 5 groups listed. I'm guessing, but it's possible.
"The Israelite Kingdom Lebanon Jordan Saudi Arabia
While the Canaanites were a Western Semitic people indigenous to the area, they appear to have consisted of a diverse ethno-cultural mix from the earliest times. It is from this diverse group that the evolution of the Israelites occurred. Although little is known about these groups, they probably included some of the following populations:
- Amorites:
- Hittites: A non-Semitic people from
- Hurrians (Horites): A non-Semitic people who inhabited parts of
- Amalekites: Nomads from southern
- Philistines: Referred to in ancient texts as “Sea Peoples.” They invaded and settled along the coasts of ancient
(Dever 2003, pp. 219-220)." Reference: http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm
http://www.britam.org/Questions/mtDNA.htm1
Seven Daughters of Eve by Bryan Sykes
Peter Fischer-on W numbers
DNA & Genealogy by Colleen Fitzpatrick & Andrew Yeiser
usion".http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#W
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2_(Y-DNA) added 6/16/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJKv9oPE7eU
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2004/12/haplogroup-e3b-and-ancient-jews.html
Update: 8/14/13 http://m172.blogspot.com.au/2008/10/phoenician-footprints-in-mediterranean.html on J2
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2009/09/jewish-womens-dna.html
http://www.igenea.com/en/forum/d/haplogroup-j/167
http://www.britam.org/Questions/mtDNA.html#7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeogenetics_of_the_Near_East (update 1/4/14)
Update: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K_(mtDNA)
update: 3/19/15 http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html
http://www.britam.org/Questions/mtDNA.html#7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
http://www.anthrogenica.com/archive/index.php/t-2880.html
Update: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
Update: LEGACY, a Genetic History of the Jewish People by Harry Ostrer, 2012, Oxford University Press
http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Carrico/CarricoDNA-results-HgJ2a4.html
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/j-2a-4-levant-genetic-match/about/background
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#inbox/FMfcgxwDqxNKcbsmwJGfHNsbtNJDBDvW Adadamia
You wrote, "5% of Jewish men are found to be Q1b". A more accurate statement is that 5% of Askenazi men are Q1b. It is also true that 5% of Iraqi Jews are Q and 15% of Yemenite Jews are Q. (Shen 2004) I am not sure about Iraqi Jews but Yemenite Jewish Q is not Q1b. It is Q1a6 being defined by the m323 mutation. Interestingly Q is found in the non-Jewish population of every country in the Arabian peninsula except Yemen.
ReplyDeleteIt appears that the assumption is that J1 is the true Haplogroup for Cohanims. However, there are may Cohanims that are J2. It is true that J1 Cohanims outnumber J2 Cohanims. However, I think there are many other factors that point to J2. Abraham's origins are SE Anatolia which is the origins of the J2 Hapologroup. J1 origins is the very southern tip of the Arabian peninsula.
ReplyDeleteAs a side note, Nadine, I lived in Tualatin for 18 years.
Robin, interesting note is that your surname is the same as my married daughter now. It's not that common a surname. That's interesting about the J1 and J2's. Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees which is actually in Iraq. This is from The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia. It's right out of the Bible. You don't live in Tualatin anymore?
ReplyDeleteDoug, I corrected it and inserted "Ashkenazi". Now I wonder what % of male Jews are Ashkenazi? I'll have to look that up.
ReplyDeleteYes the conventional wisdom is Ur of the Chaldess in southern Iraq. But, according to Josepheus and Maimonides it's southeast Anatolia. The Chaldeans didn't arrive on the historical scene until a thousand years after Abraham. Regardless, It's all in the fertile crescent which were more than likely J2's and not J1's.
ReplyDeleteNo I'm not in Tualatin anymore. I've been in AZ for about 13 years.
If your son-in-law is haplogroup
J2B2, we could be related. The Hartman surname is very common in Europe.
Doug, I just checked and found that in 1931 Ashkenazis made up 92% of Jews, but today make up about 80% of the Jewish population.
ReplyDeleteI remember that it was the Sephardis that first came to America, but around in the late 1800's Ashkenazim came mostly from Eastern Europe to America.
I have long felt there was Jewish ancestry on my mother's side for several reasons. The Primary reason being that my brother has Torsion Dystonia which occurs more in Ashkenazi Jews, then there was the term my mom used saying we were "black Dutch". I found an ancestor named Aramintha Fisher which sounds german jew to me but when I had my mtDNA done my haplogroup was J which I guess is a very low instance of my suspicions being correct. Then again, I am not sure I totally understand my dna results either.
ReplyDeleteNancy, Wikipedia has this on Black Dutch: Sephardic Jewish merchants from Spain and Portugal settled in the Dutch Republic following their expulsion from the Iberian nations and the Netherlands' gaining independence in the 16th century. They called themselves gente del linaje, or homens da nação, “Hebrews of the Portuguese Nation." The Amsterdam chief rabbi, Menasseh Ben Israel, gained approval of Oliver Cromwell's government to readmit Jews to England in the mid-17th century.[5] Many Sephardic Jews migrated from the Netherlands to settle in England, where some became prominent businessmen and professionals. Some migrated from there to the North American colonies, settling in such southern cities as Richmond, Virginia and Charleston, South Carolina, as well as Newport, Rhode Island; Boston, New York and Philadelphia.
ReplyDeleteYou tested as J what? 1 or 2? Did you have the 12 allele test or what? Was it with familytreedna? As you read here, J can be Jewish. you might want to advance your test from a 12 to at least a 25 and see who you match up with.
My mtDNA test was done through ancestry.com. It only mentions J thats it. It mentions HVR1 and HVR2. Nothing about allele test. I guess until I can ever find out who Aramintha's parents are I will never know. I do have a picture of her and she is pretty dark.
ReplyDeleteNancy,
ReplyDeleteIt must be HVR1 test, but they should have told you a little more with the J. I'm surprised. I think I did see a picture of her on ancestry.com. Can you download a certificate? That will have a little more information on it. I'm not familiar with ancestry's dna testing. Hopefully, you have your own webpage with them and can find out more information. In the meantime, use ancestry.com to do your genealogy and see what you can find. Use the Morman LDS website, too. and whatever else you can find. Even google the name.
Hello,
ReplyDeleteI took the mtDNA test at ancestry.com.
DNA test said that I belong to belong to Maternal Ancient
Ancestry haplogroup J, The European Travelers.
The reason that I took the test was to know about my maternal ancestral line.
My mom never knew her mother nor any relatives on that side of the family.
All we know is that my mother was of English,German,French,and Italian ancestry.
While looking for my maternal grandmother for my mother back in 1994, I obtained
her birth certificate in San Francisco. I found out the names of my great grandparents.
My great grandmother's name was Ruth Rosenthal. Somebody told me that the name
was Jewish,and some others told me that too. However, there was no mention of
my maternal grandmother being part Jewish. I read that Rosenthal is a German name.
I recently read that its means "rose valley" I took the test, suspecting that I have Middle
Eastern ancestry, especially Jewish. Mesopotamian ancestry is also something
that I suspect on my maternal grandmother's maternal side.
I went to a site, and I asked about subclades. I was told that I have J1c
I joined mtDNA J yahoo group run by Jim Logan, and he confirmed that my subclade is J1c.
One of the members there told me that I am almost certainly Jewish because he is one of my HVR1 matches.
He also matches me on HVR2 except for 2. He said that ancestry.com doesn't test 462 and 489.
He also told me that most of his matches have Jewish surnames. He told me that the name Rosenthal could be German or Jewish, but in my case it is Jewish especially since most matches are from Eastern Europe rather than Germany. He told me that I meet the HVR criteria for subclade J1c. He said that although Mtdna haplogroup J began in the Middle East, it is likely that J1c did not enter the Jewish population until Ashkenazi Jews migrated to Eastern Europe around 600 to 700 years ago. In other words, Jewish J1c lines probably developed when Jewish men married Slavic women who converted. J1c is not very prevalent in the Middle East. He said that our last common ancestor lived around this time, after Slavic women converted, since we do not have any non-Jewish Slavic matches.
These are my mtDNA mutations to determine my haplogroup and subclade
HVR1:
73G
185A
195C
228A
263G
295T
HVR2:
315.1C
16069T
16093C
16126C
16261T
16274A
16355T
Ancestry.com doesn't do a complete job obviously.
I am thinking of getting another mtDNA done through familytreeDNA.com.
Glaucus,
ReplyDeleteYou said your mtdna is J. Bryan Sykes, in his book, "The Seven Daughters of Eve," calls J Jasmine. She started in a village of about 300 people about a mile from the river Eurphrates in what is now Syria at the end of the great Ice Age. Yes, I prefer Familytreedna company for dna testing. Now I just got the results from 23 & Me, another company and am having a great time. It's different in their testing methods (spitting) and the results are of course the haplogroup but also you can find people who share some of your genome. It's very exciting. As for the surname Rosenthal, it most likely is Jewish with that J haplogroup. Go to my: http://goldfoot_genealogy.blogspot.com where I explain about German and Jewish names.
I am writing to ask what is the Haplogroup T2b, and is it Jewish?
ReplyDeleteI have had a suspicion for many, many years that I was Jewish and decided five years ago to do my DNA with FTDNA. I originally did the HVR1 and HVR2. Recently, in December, I ordered the FGS and just recently received my results. I went from a T2 to T2b.
The reason I did it was because my mother and grandmother didn't "seem" to know anything about our past and always seem to change the subject or not want to talk about. For years, people (especially Jewish people) would ask me if I and my mother were Jewish because we looked like it. Anyway, I found out recently that what WAS told to me wasn't true. My great-great grandmother was from Czechoslovakia and came to Baltimore, MD in the mid 1800's.
There is Jewish coming up in my DNA results from those who have confirmed they are Jewish. It is Sephardic from Turkey and Spain. I have one from Israel. The Ashkenazi fits what my grandmother said we were, German, Czechoslovakia, with Russian and Polish added in.
All I would like to know is the T2b of the Jewish haplogroups and am I Jewish. :0) Thanks!
Karen, about your T mtdna,John Entine writes that they are believed to have originated in Mesopotamia or Anatolia 10,000 years ago. That's before Judaism was created, of course. They moved north with farming. They are found mostly around the eastern Baltic Sea and the Urals. Eastern European women are also been living there, so I would say it's very possible.
ReplyDeleteCan you explain what you meant by "There are unique characteristics in H in Jewish women not found in non-Jews?" I am Jewish, did the DNA maternal test with National Geographic. I have always heard that my great-grandmother on my mother's side was adopted at birth, perhaps not born Jewish. Do you know any way to find out if I come from a Jewish maternal line or not?
ReplyDeleteJudy, I don't know the unique alleles for the Jewish H mtdna. I wish I did.
ReplyDeleteThanks. Any suggestions as to where this information is?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi. From reading through these posts I find a mention of "Black Dutch." My grandmother told me and my mother many times that she was "Black Dutch." Her mother was from Prussia, (Posen to be exact) which is now Poznan, Poland. I had my mtDNA done by FTDNA and my haplogroup is determined to be U1b. My HVR1 is:
ReplyDelete16249C
16311C
16327T
and HVR is:
73G
146C
152C
195C
263G
285T
315.1C
It is explained on my test that this indicates Middle East origin.
I always had a feeling we were Jewish.
Thanks.
Upon reading through these posts I see a mention of "Black Dutch." My grandmother always told me we were "Black Dutch." I suspected it meant we were Jewish.
ReplyDeleteI recently had my mtDNA done through FTDNA which lists my haplogroup as
U1b.
My HVR1
16249C
16311C
16327T
and HVR2
73G
146C
152C
195C
263G
285T
315.1C
My ancestral origin is listed as Middle East.
When I google my HVR1 and HVR2, I am directed to Jewish sites. Is this enough to confirm I am in fact Jewish?
Unknown,
ReplyDeleteYou're not Jewish but you have Jewish ancestry, then.
Question. My yDNA is E1b1b1, and this is - "Levy" line. It seems that all the reserch is saying that the Khazar admixture event is what the Levite line comes from. Would this mean my father is not a Levite ? Or could there be mutilple Levite lines ? Could he still be a true Levite ?
ReplyDeleteMtDNA, HV1b2. This is my mom's side. Is this Jewish or non-Jewish ? It doesnt seem to be Jewish..? The main info in this refers to HV, but do you know anything about this specific line, HV1b2 ?
Question. My yDNA is E1b1b1, and this is - "Levy" line. It seems that all the reserch is saying that the Khazar admixture event is what the Levite line comes from. Would this mean my father is not a Levite ? Or could there be mutilple Levite lines ? Could he still be a true Levite ?
ReplyDeleteMtDNA, HV1b2. This is my mom's side. Is this Jewish or non-Jewish ? It doesnt seem to be Jewish..? The main info in this refers to HV, but do you know anything about this specific line, HV1b2 ?
@Gagga. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that E1b1b1 is the "Levy" line. This SNP predates Abraham. For example, my haplogroup is J2b2. There are Cohanim that are J2b2. But since this SNP is 5K+ years old, it also predates Abraham and therefore one can not declare J2b2 a Cohanim line.
ReplyDeleteYou misunderstood me. My fathers surname is Levy. And his yDNA is E1b1b1. I have no idea what E1b1b1 is, but I do know the surname is "Levy."
ReplyDeleteI had tjought that the Levite line was descended from an admixture event with Khazars. And it seems the current hypothesis is that R1a or R1b is the Khazar Levite line ?
Was surprised when a known person with the Levite surname ended up being E1b1b1.
It must be assumed that there are multiple Levite Lines, and the Khazar R1 line is just one of several ?
Gagga, Is your surname "Levy"? If you father's surname is Levy, I would suppose yours is, too, and his haplogroup would then be yours as well as the Ydna goes from father to son to son to son etc. E1b1b1 means it is a Jewish line from E of which I have just added more information under the E haplogroups. Yes, Levites were a mixture of haplogroups. Only the Cohen gene has remained as pure as found. I just had a friend who is a Cohen in the synagogue test his dna and he was truly J1-the Cohen gene. Some are J1 and others J2, a slight branching there. Yes, the Khazar line seems to be more of the R1's than Q's, although I'm sure that being it was a trading center wound up with everyone there, but of course not so much in the Royal family line except in marriages, etc.
ReplyDeleteYes our family surname is Levy indeed. So it seems that the E1b1b1 yDNA is a mixture, and not as consistent as the J1-Cohen line ? The reason I ask is because we are not Jewish, but Catholic.
ReplyDeleteIt seems many Levites are also E1b1b1 ? Does this confirm being a Levite or is really the J1 the only confirming consistent marker for Levite, Cohen and Israelites ?
Also our the mtDNA is interesting, didn't see much information on it --HV1b2. These people were from Lithuania and Latvia. And as far as we know have been Catholic as long as we can remember.
Levy is a Jewish surname denoting the Levites who were the teachers. This is in the Torah-first 5 books of Moses. Many Jews chose to convert to Catholicism during the Spanish Inquisition around 1492. It was that or they were forced to leave the country, and in those days that was a pretty scary thing. I'd hate to have to board the Nina, Pinta or Santa Maria today and take off for the unknown hinterland. You're not the only family who are discovering their Jewish ancstors, and I think this could certainly be the case. J1 is the Cohen gene of the descendants of Moses and Aaron, and who were to be the Cohens or priests while the Levites were the teachers. These were designated positions in the plan of Moses. mtDNA does not tell as much as Ydna because it does not mutate very much, and there are not that many groups, but Lithuania and Latvia were centers of Jewish life. I have a friends whose Jewish grandfather was in WWII and wound up in another country, having been taken prisoner, and eventually married a Catholic lady and their children grew up Catholic. They knew very little about his background. So, with all the pogroms, etc, no telling when the famiy became Catholic.
ReplyDeleteNadene
If you are a true Levite you will fall into the RH negative category ..The purest bloodline is 0 RH negative ...Surnames truly have nothing to do with your ancestry. During the Catholic reign of terror and Holocaust many children and babies lost their true identifies and heritage . They were hidden and some given to new families being raised under Christian and Catholic origins.
ReplyDeleteMy Great Grandmother was forced into converting to being Catholic and was forced to raise her children catholic. Her maiden Was Yeager.However for years my genealogy was messed up because I was always searching under the original name spelling which was Joerger. It want until about a year ago I learned the family choose Joerger as the new spelling from Yeager to make it easier to say in English...Hmmmm
The persecution on Jews was so intense people even changed their last names in all hopes to hide and conceal who they are.
Ive done countless hours on my Genealogy and its all very puzzling . When I had my DNA testing done and came out as a J* a little more light was shed
on who I may be... I certainly was not having luck with family surnames.
Now what is very interesting is the RH negatives blood type.. Specially the 0 Negs ... I didn't learn this till I had a baby and they told me I must have the rhogam (Google Rhogam for more understanding)
Basically any other child I carry that is a RH positive my body may reject or make the baby very very sick.
Going back to Levite Law on marriage..special rules followed for Levites only ....they are only allowed to marry their own kind. Which would take me to the point of possible 0 negative blood....
I bring all this up to help expand the research and open up more ideas ...
Thanks for reading and pleas eadd your thoughts
Michelle
Michelle, I haven't read anything on confirming Levites with blood lines. The Cohens have followed the rules and today we test dna and find the haplogroup for Cohens, but not for Levites, but it's true that Cohens do not all have that surname. However, a person who knows he's a Cohen in the synagogue through oral family history is proving to also be a Cohen in dna. Levites are of mixed haplogroups. You should read more about dna and you'll see what I mean. This is the way population geneticists follow people and their ancestors.
ReplyDeleteMichelle, As far as I know, there are no specific Levite or Cohen blood types -- I have not heard any blood type related to a specific ethnicity, and limited to that.
ReplyDeleteNadene, it seems that Jews in general are a mix of many haplogroups. Even not all Cohens fall into one group only.
The results for Levites seem to put them in many haplogroups, nothing consistent. And while a majority of Cohen's seem to fall into a particular group, there are many that do not.
I have read that the Lemba of Africa probably are the truest present day living descendents of the Levites or Cohens, as well as the Samaritans.
Also, after the Babylonians came into, many Levites left and were disbursed. The one's that stayed perhaps are the Haplogroups that we currently are seeing with regard to "J" ? I think this is not conclusive yet.
It seems like the main conclusion is that jews are a mixed group of people.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am curious...I took the mtdna test through family tree dna and they determined I am haplogroup U*. There are many reasons for me to believe I have jewish ancestry (though I am not jewish). I was told, for some reason, ftdna was unable to provide me with a subclad of U.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering how common, if at all, it is for people/women to be jewish and in haplogroup U*.
Any insight would be appreciated!
Sorry about that...seems my comment posted a "few" more times than I meant for it to be!
ReplyDeleteHadassah, the mtdna Haplogroup U is a very large and diverse branch. It dates to 50,000 years ago and s found in basques, Welsh and a few Atlantic coastal populations and was the mtDNA of Ceddar Man. About 40% of Europeans have the clade U5, the most frequent and ancient subcluster of U, while U2 is most common in India and U6 in North Africa. I would first upgrade your test. It's almost impossible to say what mtDNA is Jewish being the men intermarried with woman along their travels quite a lot. My own mother, H2a1 married and converted when she married my Jewish father, so I am Jewish. You may have Jewish relatives. You could take the test with ftdna or 23 and Me to see if you match any part of your genes with others who are Jewish. I've done that.
ReplyDeleteWhoops, that is Cheddar Man.
ReplyDeleteJewish law determines the way a Jewish person should live according to the laws G-d set out for him/her. One of the most basic of Jewish laws is who is a Jew - G-d defines who is and who is not Jewish and told us how He does so. A Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish, or whose mother converted to Judaism according to Jewish law, or he himself converts to Judaism according to Jewish law. If someone's mother did not convert according to what G-d told us is the way He wishes a conversion to take place, then that person isn't Jewish, even if they think they are. If a person's father is Jewish, but his mother is not, that person is not Jewish. DNA does not determine who is Jewish. It can only give an estimate of which ethnic ancestry a person is likely to have. If a person comes up with genes that appear to be related to those genes that many Jews have, it does not mean they are Jewish. It only means someone in their ancestry may have been Jewish.
ReplyDeleteGagga, I am also an E1b1b1, specifically E1b1b1a1b at FamilyTreeDNA. My kit # is 159177, and I would like to compare our Y's assuming you also tested with FTDNA. I also have a Levy among my relatives at 23andme, but he is a Y-DNA Q1b, so not related to your line.
ReplyDeleteGagga, I forgot to mention that I am Dave123 at 23andme, if you also subscribe there.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote above that, "Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E". That's not possible. If you're J1 then you're not E, and vice versa. You can't be one with a little bit of the other. Perhaps you were trying to write something else.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote above that, "Cohens with J1 have 1.5% of E". That's not possible. If you're J1 then you're not E, and vice versa. You can't be one with a little bit of the other. Perhaps you were trying to write something else.
ReplyDeleteHi, I'm confused, my MTDNA test Haplogroup results came back as V2. There is an oral tradition in the family that the tthe women in our family are Jewish, is this correct?
ReplyDeleteESB, Jewish individuals are in almost every mtDNA and Y haplogroup, but are concentrated in certain haplogroups and their subclades. Mitochondrial haplogroup V undoubtably occurs in the Jewish community, but apparently is not that common, based on the this chart: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n4/fig_tab/5201764t1.html#figure-title
ReplyDeleteThe four mtDNA haplotypes that account for 40% of the total are:
K1a1b1a
K1a9
K2a2a
N1b2
Thanks, Levitylab. That's a good website. You're right. My paternal grandmother was W from Poland, Jewish, and I see even with Jews she's only 3.1% of their population. Her husband, met in Idaho, is Q1b1a or Q L245 which is 5% of the Jewish males. Interesting how they hooked up. H makes up almost half of all European females, so I'm not surprised with those results but wonder just what the haplogroup is for them other than H.
ReplyDeleteHadassah, this website showing % is that U results depends on location. Among Polish Jews it is 6.3% and with Polish non-Jews it is 16.1%. With Russian and Ukrainiun Jews the % is 7.3 and with non-Jews is 17.9. Jon Entine reports that U is a very large and diverse branch going back 50,000 years ago. About 40% of Europeans have the haplogroup (clade)U5. U2 is most common in India and U6 in North Africa.
ReplyDeletei had my dna tested at '23 and me' and found out my haplogroup is K1a1b1a. the odd thing is that as far as i can go back on my maternal side (4 generations) my great great great grandparents were ukrainian greek catholics from galicia. i have absolutely no known jewish ancestry. my mom was tested for 'family finder' at family tree dna and has few matches, all of which are distant. on 23 and me my relative finder results bare 'few' declared ashkenazi matches, all of my 23 and me matches are distant. this leads me to believe i have no recent jewish ancestry. so, how did i end up with this haplogroup and not be jewish? do i have to have a distant jewish grandmother since i am k1a1b1a??
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi, I've discovered that all my surnames are sephardic+one ashkenazy. My Ydna is Eb1b1 and mtdna is u6a1. U6a1 is not jewish but my mother's surnames are all sephardic. Any unputs??
ReplyDeleteHaplogroup J2a-M410 in India was found to be largely confined to the castes[20] with no occurrence in the tribals, but a new study has found it at higher percentages (10%) among the Tharu indigenous people of Terai, Nepal.[31] In India, the J2 haplogroup is almost absent from tribals. Haplogroup J2b is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in high frequencies also in the Northwest of India.The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).[20] Haplogroup J was found to be even more common in India's Shia Muslim community, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J2a-M410, 10.6% in J1 and 4.4% in J2b.[32] The high variance of J2b2 in South Asia indicates a probable pre-Neolithic migration.(wikipedia)
ReplyDeleteJ2
ReplyDeleteMain article: Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)
Haplogroup J2 It is composed of several sub-Haplogroups representing several different countries like Turkey, Iraq, Kurdistan, Lebanon, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Aegean, Balkan, Italy. One sub Haplogroup M172* is mainly found in the Northern Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean, Iran, Central Asia, and Southern Europe. Is is though to have originated in Anatolia (Turkey and Kurdstan) ie North Mesopotamia, and spread to Europe and to other Middle countries like Lebanon Palestine Iraq, Syria. J2 subclades is found also in Armenia, Azerbaijan), Iran, Central Asia, and South Asia: for example, Muslim Kurds (28.4%), Central Turks (27.9%), Georgians (26.7%), Iraqis (25.2%), Lebanese (25%), Ashkenazi Jews (23.2%), Sephardi Jews (28.6%), Iranians (23.3%), Tajiks (18.4%), and Pakistanis (14.7%). J2 is not regularly found in Semitic-speaking populations of Africa, such as the Amhara and Tigrinya in Ethiopia (Semino et al. 2004). However, J2 has been found to encompass several subhaplogroups (22 subhaplogroups, including 5 that have high frequencies) that originated or expanded in different regions: Italy, the Balkans, the Aegean, Anatolia (Turkey and Kurds), the Caucasus (Georgia), and Somalia (see ref: Semino et al. 2004). Haplogroup J2 was used to be considered a genetic marker of Anatolian Neolithic agriculturalists. It is also very frequent in the Balkans (Greeks 20.6%, Albanians 19.6%) and in southern Italy (16.7-29.1%). Its frequency rapidly drops in the Carpathian basin (Croatians 6.2%, Hungarians 2.0%, Ukrainians 7.3%) and in Southeastern Iranian-speaking areas (Pashtuns 5.2%, Pamiris 6.1%). A significant presence of J2 (J2b2+J2a) was detected in western and south-western India (the highest being 21% among Dravidian middle castes, followed by upper castes, 18.6%, and lower castes 14%; Sengupta et al. 2006).http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29
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ReplyDeleteIf I have a 23% probablity of carrying Y haplotype EM-34 or EM-84 and 33% probablity to carry J1c3d, and given the fact that I am Amhara Orthodox Christian with strong Jewish tradition, is it reasonable to assume that I have 50% probablity to have Jewish ancesstery?
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ReplyDeleteHow do the Jews went to Poland,Rusia, Ukranie (Eurosia)from Middleast... Ashkenazi Jews can be Khazarian Turks or Turkic-Jewish mix Great Seljuks Dynst were muslim. Names of the dynasty dvided Turkic or non turkic names. The most common nonturkic name are Michael ,David,Solomon, Abraham,Moses in early generations.Later inrease islamic names Muhammed,Mahmud,Ahmed. Sejuks Oghuz Turks were so close Hazarain Turks...
ReplyDeleteMy son had DNA testing done last year. My DNA side shows J1c. On my mother's side, her mother's maiden name was Harborc. She came from somewhere in what was then Russia--she was born around 1900. Her husband, Adam Wrana, was born probably around 1882-1885, in what was then "Austria". My mother's parents did not speak Russian, German, Czech, or Polish. When we translated some of the phrases my mom remembered hearing her mother speak--they were YIDDISH. But growing up in NY, my mother was sent to Catholic schools by her mother. For some reason, for a long time, I felt like we were of Jewish descent. My mother's family are either all gone now, or scattered (don't know any of my cousins)but years ago when my Dad tried to get her ancestry from them, they were all VERY secretive. I was wondering if anyone could tell me whether or not I might actually be of Jewish descent. BTW, my grandfather (Wrana) looked dark and "swarthy" with a big black mustache, and looked Jewish. My grandmother looked more Eastern European, but had olive skin as well, and dark hair and eyes. I don't know if that's any help or not in understanding all this. Someone please give me your opinion--especially Nadene Goldfoot, if you are still writing on here! THANKS!!
ReplyDeletethe cmh is not specific to jews but all descendants of shem Prophet Abraham is not from anatolia he is from Iraq he is chaldean black wavy hair,oval face a beautiful curve to his nose bridge which did not make it look too big hooked or jagged, upside down v eyebrows a v hair he was not caucasian
ReplyDeletehow come no one ever mentions the Ad and thamud who are from the line of Aram son of Shem and Prophet Hud and SaaliH PBT are from this line after the thamud the imliq(amorites,Amalek) succeeded them hence the imliq are known as adites the imliq mixed with the hittites Idumeans Edomites
ReplyDeleteiraqi kurds are a total of 40% j dna 28.4% j2 and 11.6% j1
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/ go to figure 4 the iraqi kurds are the closest to semitic jews and many of them have semitic features remember Prophet Jonah PBH was sent to Nineveh! also the kurds are from hittite heritage as well as medes and medes had alliance with the chaldeans
ReplyDeleteYes, I've heard that the Kurds have the closest dna to Jews. Looks like Irai Kurds are very close being 40%. Jews were taken by Assyrians there in about 720 BCE , so there must have been some connections going on.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the current theory with E1b1b1 ? Is this group related to Khazarians ? It seems that this group is not an original jewish group as J etc...
ReplyDeleteyes but qahtani arabs are cousins to the jews joktan was brother of peleg
ReplyDeleteof coarse the adnani arabs would be closest to jews because of Prophet Ismael PBH but also many people forget prophet Hud and SaaliH came before and yes they do have descendants
ReplyDeletewell adites are from ad son of aws(uz) son of aram son of shem Prophet Hud is from this line Prophet Saalih is from thamud if i am correct also from aram when thamud perished the remaining sons of aram were known as arman the imliq succeeded the thamud
ReplyDeleteY-DNA Haplogroups in Iraqi Kurdistan
ReplyDelete(J2 - 28.4% semitic)
R1b - 16.8%
I - 16.8%
R1a - 11.6%
(J1 - 11.6% semitic)
E1b1b - 7.4%
G - 4.2%
T - 3.2
In human genetics, Haplogroup J (previously known as HG9 or Eu9/Eu10) is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. It is one of the major male lines of all living men. It is divided into two main branches referred to as J1 and J2. wikipedia))))
ReplyDeleteThe relationship of the five modal haplotypes that were found in the six populations is presented in figure 3. The most-frequent haplotype in all three Jewish groups (the CMH [haplotype 159 in the Appendix]) segregated on a Eu 10 background, together with the three modal haplotypes in Palestinians and Bedouin (haplotypes 144, 151, and 166).((( The dominant haplotype of the Muslim Kurds (haplotype 114) was only one microsatellite-mutation step apart from the CMH and the modal haplotype of the Bedouin, but it belonged to haplogroup Eu 9. )))The three modal haplotypes in the Palestinians and Bedouin were entirely restricted to the two Arab populations. On the other hand, chromosomes with the modal haplotypes of the Jews and of the Muslim Kurds were observed in all the populations except the Bedouin. The three Jewish communities had many additional haplotypes in common with Muslim Kurds (table 3). They shared more haplotypes and chromosomes with Muslim Kurds than with either Palestinians or Bedouin.
Many Kurds have the "Jewish" Cohen Modal Haplotype
ReplyDeleteIn the 1990s, a team of scientists (including the geneticist Michael Hammer, the nephrologist Karl Skorecki, and their colleagues in England) discovered the existence of a haplotype which they termed the "Cohen modal haplotype" (abbreviated as CMH). Cohen is the Hebrew word for "priest", and designates descendants of Judean priests from two thousand years ago. Initial research indicated that while only about 3 percent of general Jews have this haplotype, 45 percent of Ashkenazic Cohens have it, while 56 percent of Sephardic Cohens have it. David Goldstein, an evolutionary geneticist at Oxford University, said: "It looks like this chromosomal type was a constituent of the ancestral Hebrew population." Some Jewish rabbis used the Cohen study to argue that all Cohens with the CMH had descended from Aaron, a High Priest who lived about 3500 years ago, as the Torah claimed. Shortly after, it was determined that 53 percent of the Buba clan of the Lemba people of southern Africa have the CMH, compared to 9 percent of non-Buba Lembas. The Lembas claim descent from ancient Israelites, and they follow certain Jewish practices such as circumcision and refraining from eating pork, and for many geneticists and historians the genetic evidence seemed to verify their claim.
However, it soon became apparent that the CMH is not specific to Jews or descendants of Jews. In a 1998 article in Science News, Dr. Skorecki indicated (in an interview) that some non-Jews also possess the Cohen markers, and that the markers are therefore not "unique or special".(((((( The CMH is very common among Iraqi Kurds, according to a 1999 study by C. Brinkmann et al.)))))))))) And in her 2001 article, Oppenheim wrote: "The dominant haplotype of the Muslim Kurds (haplotype 114) was only one microsatellite-mutation step apart from the CMH..." (Oppenheim 2001, page 1100). Furthermore, the CMH is also found among some Armenians, according to Dr. Levon Yepiskoposyan (Head of the Institute of Man in Yerevan, Armenia), who has studied genetics for many years. Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin wrote: "The suggestion that the 'Cohen modal haplotype' is a signature haplotype for the ancient Hebrew population is also not supported by data from other populations." (Zoossmann-Diskin 2000, page 156).
In short, the CMH is a genetic marker from the northern Middle East which is not unique to Jews. However, its existence among many Kurds and Armenians, as well as some Italians and Hungarians, would seem to support the overall contention that Kurds and Armenians are the close relatives of modern Jews and that the majority of today's Jews have paternal ancestry from the northeastern Mediterranean region.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThe CMH gene is undoubtedly the founder of the ancient Jewish root. However, since it is abundant elsewhere we can't be sure, by mere carrying of this haplotype. Rather EM-34, i'e E1b1b1c1 and its descendant EM-84 (E1b1b1c1a) are more realistic, for one to trace its Jewish ancessters.
ReplyDeletecmh is not specific to jewish but to descendants of shem
ReplyDeleteIs this regarding European Women that converted to Judaism? Before we were exiled, no European women were in the area. We are confused.
ReplyDeleteAlso I dont know how to say this the Ad ad thamud were before time of Abraham and the Imliq came beforethey are the successors of the ad and thamud they are adites a mix from pe(((When Thamud in turn was destroyed, the remaining sons of Iram were called Arman — they are Nabateans
ReplyDeletefrom Prophets and Patriarchs)))
remember Prophet Saalih and family and those who believed survived also MANY years passed by after the torment that befell the people of 'Ad, and other generations came to succeed them. Among these were the Thamud people who were the successors of the believers who were saved with Prophet Hud. the thamud settled in al hijr they are the second ad Hud descendants mixing with thamud, thamud becoming the second Ad ))))))then imliq Idumeans are the adites! the imliq as i said mixed with two types of hamitic canaanites the phoenicians another branch of the dravidian race and the imliq mixed with another canaanite people like pure aboriginal people of north america these two features are still found in the arabs of jordan, yemen and saudia yes in north africa as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1f3snUpLU north african!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLnHC0LL6Yg north african guy with mustache nice hair if u go to southern india u will see this feature
The origin of the Nabateans remains obscure, but they were Aramaic speakers, and the term "Nabatean" was the Arabic name for an Aramean of Syria and Iraq.ople of Ad bin aws bin Iram
"Abraham's origins are SE Anatolia which is the origins of the J2 Hapologroup."" he is not from southeast turkey it was southern iraq ur!!
ReplyDeleteon page 16 of prophets and patriarchs it says "Arphaxad had a son named Nimrod. Nimrod bin Arphaxad whose dwelling was in the vicinity of al hijr also on page 18 i says of another Nimrod .Nimrod bin cush bin canaan bin ham bin Nuh AS not Nimrod bin Cush there are three different Nimrods
also it says this in prophets and patriarchs "Nimrod was son of Cush son Canaan son of Ham son of Noah. He was the lord of Babylon and of Abraham PBH the friend of the Merciful!
However, the Arab historian Abu al-Hasan 'Alī al-Mas'ūdī, citing 'traditional' Arab history, relates that the Amalekites did indeed exist at this early period having originated in the region of Mecca before the time of Abraham. wikipedia
ReplyDeletethe time line has to be cleaned then i think people can understand more easy also you have to look at the age that prophet Abraham had Ismael as well as the age he had Isaac who was younger by age i think the Israelites are the youngest nation and coming after the Adnani arabs the arameans migrated into ancient iraq same time and i think it was a mix and i think some people are full of it aramaic was the language of the time why did it have such an influence on other groups
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-0-171CCF09000005DC-546_634x389.jpg arab of jordan haha they said the bediouns resembled johnny depp too funny jonny depp is wearing make up
ReplyDeletehttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z9BgvTzPBCw/T_7hq9osyrI/AAAAAAAABDs/NeYk5GebpFc/s1600/johnny-depp-015-01.jpg this is johnny depp no makeup johnny depp is no arab he looks caucasian and native american
http://www.asianews.it/files/img/bedouin.jpg arabs of jordan
http://www.floraine.org/jordan/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/IMG_7094R-300x200.jpg
I am adopted. There was always some question on possible Jewish ancestry. I had the family tree dna testing, but apparently, no Jewish link showed up. Can these links be missed sometimes?? or is this a fairly definite answer? Thank you.
ReplyDeleteYou know brother dont worry about these things because we are the sons of Adam PBH who was a Prophet PBH, then,Prophet Seth PBH, Prophet Enoch PBH and Prophet Noah PBT the best one is in deeds
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNadene,
ReplyDeleteMy mother's grandmother was a Zylensky (sp?) from Poland that I think was Jewish. I just got my family tree mtdna test back and am more confused than ever. I am Haplogroup J and there was something about J1b1a1b. Do I need to do more testing to determine if my great grandmother was Jewish?
Many thanks,
Jen McIntyre
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ReplyDeletemy question is are u sure jews are j1?
ReplyDeletesecond time i am saying this is that the israelites as a nation are even younger than the Adnani arabs what i think is that the imliq were successors to the ad and thamud and most likely descendants of Hud and SaaleH AS were in that area where the israelites came to settle after them also the adnani arabs and also the banu Ghassan (qahtani arabs)
The Chaldeans didn't arrive on the historical scene until a thousand years after Abraham" Prophet Abraham PBH was Chaldean himself! they were not from anatolia this incorrect !http://www.crystalinks.com/chaldeamap.gif . Also j1 is older than j2a and j2b? the Israelites as a nation are younger who would have had interaction with them the arameans ?
ReplyDeletearameans and chaldeans migrated into iraq same time i think it was a mix the dwelling place of nimrod bin arfakhshaad was al hijr which is north arabia people are always forgetting Prophet Jonah PBH was sent to Nineveh north iraq where my heritage is from Jonah lived and died there
i made a mistake true the Israelites as a nation are younger than Adnani Arabs but youngest of the nations of Abraham PBH would be the people of Madyan people of Katurah
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteHaplogroup: H1, a subgroup of H
ReplyDeleteAge: 13,000 years
Region: Europe, Near East, Central Asia, Northwestern Africa
Example Populations: Spanish,Berbers,Lebanese
Highlight: H1 appears to have been common in Doggerland, an ancient land now flooded by the North Sea. From 23andMe.com
Dear Nadene,
ReplyDeleteI came across your very interesting blog while searching for answers. Many people who post here know more about DNA results than me.
I was raised by my German born Grandmother Ottilie, back in the 60s and 70s. Even though she was very kind to me she was also a puzzle in so many ways. She is not a strange name in a genealogy search. She was a real person to me whose memory I would like to honor.
Her many deep rooted fears of Nazis and the police had a profound affect on me, also. She told me she was the sole surviving member of her family and that they would never be found. Her Bible teaching usually focused on the Old Testament. The food we ate which I thought were German foods were all based on beef fish chicken and lamb. I never knew what ham even was until I saw it in high school. And she drank only Kosher wine, a glass each night with dinner.
But we never spoke of Jews, ever, and these unusual habits aren't proof of anything.
Later, I became an adult and met an Israeli who was a teacher at my daughters school that I realized she may have been Jewish.
I have tried for a long time to trace a member of her family but without success. So of course times being what we're in I also explored DNA testing. But, I don't know if this is actually reliable. There is no way to test any Y DNA because she has no other relatives only descendants. I did a FTDNA test and it showed T haplotype. I would go further than that but don't know if it's worth pursuing. Is it possible to see through DNA that she came from Jewish ancestry?
Thanks for reading this letter. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Sharon
Dear Nadene,
ReplyDeleteI came across your very interesting blog while searching for my own answers. Many people who post here know more about DNA results than me.
I was raised by my German born Grandmother Ottilie, back in the 60s and 70s. Even though she was very kind to me she was also a puzzle in so many ways. She is not a strange name in a genealogy search. She was a real person to me whose memory I would like to honor.
Her many deep rooted fears of Nazis and the police had a profound affect on me, also. She told me she was the sole surviving member of her family and that they would never be found. Her Bible teaching usually focused on the Old Testament. The food we ate which I thought were German foods were all based on beef fish chicken and lamb. I never knew what ham even was until I saw it in high school. And she drank only Kosher wine, a glass each night with dinner.
But we never spoke of Jews, ever, and these unusual habits aren't proof of anything.
Later, I became an adult and met an Israeli who was a teacher at my daughters school that I realized she may have been Jewish.
I have tried for a long time to trace a member of her family but without success. So of course times being what we're in I also explored DNA testing. But, I don't know if this is actually reliable. There is no way to test any Y DNA because she has no other relatives only descendants. I did a FTDNA test and it showed T haplotype. I would go further than that but don't know if it's worth pursuing. Is it possible to see through DNA that she came from Jewish ancestry?
Thanks for reading this letter. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Sharon
Sharon:
ReplyDeleteYes, the best way to find out if your DNA has any Ashkenazi alleles is to test with 23andme.com They have excellent tools that determine a person's Ashkenazim component down to very small percentages.
Is there an advantage to 23andme over FTDNA? Is there a larger data base to compare to? Thanks for the reply. :)
ReplyDeleteSharon:
ReplyDelete23andme definitely has much better tools to ferret out various ancestries, including Jewish. FTDNA is still in the Beta stage of their Population Finder feature. In their FAQ section they say that results may change in the future. So, I guess they are going to add more populations at some point.
Right now Population Finder has two broad categories Europe and Middle East; at least that's all I'm showing. If you are subscribed to Population Finder at FTDNA, and you show a significant percentage of Middle East, like maybe 15% or more (just a ballpark guess), then that would be an indication of possible Jewish ancestry, especially, of course, if it only idicates Jewish in the sub-categories.
You could also upload your raw DNA data from FTDNA into Gedmatch.com. They have excellent tools there. For example, the Dodecad V3 tool will show between 12% and 13% Southwest Asian component for those of full Jewish ancestry, and smaller percentages for partial Jewish ancestry. Northwest European descended people, like myself, usually range between 0% and 2%, though some are higher. I'm slightly elevated at 2.7%. Using Gedmatch would save you the 99 dollar cost of testing at 23andme. But, if you can afford it, I would definitely test with 23andme. It's only a one time cost, and I find the threads at 23 to be very interesting and informative.
The Dodecad V3 tool shows 5% Southwest Asian....am I correct to assume this indicates some Jewish heritage? Thank you.
DeleteLevitylab, you are most helpful. Of course this can get costly, but moreover, it's stressful to look over vague DNA results that yield few answers. If I thought useful information could be gleaned from such tests based on just a single person I would use both companies.
ReplyDeleteI will begin again with your suggestion. Thanks very much.
Nadine,
ReplyDeleteIn terms of mtDNA, you do not mention MtDNA HV.
I understand HV predates H and V.
Where does this fit in terms of the jewish groups of mtDNA Haplogroups ?
Thanks,
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to publish this comment, I just think this is refreshing because you aren't an ideologue about things — you seem to embrace the Khazaria conversion for one thing — and I like the imagery of the Jewish people picking up diversity based upon where they have lived, rather than being 'blood pure' or some such racist nonsense.
I have Jewish ancestry on both sides but am not Jewish technically, because my mother's mother was Irish.
My father had long denied knowing there was Jewish ancestry on his mother's side, but there is, and I've been trying to figure out how close it gets to him maternally. I've just had a female cousin (my aunt's daughter) haplotyped and alas, she wasn't a K, she was only an H. But there is still hope I guess.
My father’s grandfather grandfather disowned my grandfather for marrying my grandmother — tried to break up the marriage and ultimately left them out of his inheritance, even though he was good friends and political allies with her father. It has always struck me as a 'blood thing' and indeed, her paternal ancestors were German-Austrian Jewish Colonial folk (coming over shortly before the War of Independence) who kept marrying Jewish for at least a few generations... but I am unsure how far it went. I'm not sure about her mother. My grandmother's parents were not particularly religious. She however went to some tent revival thing and became a member of a rather Germanic protestant sect. For years, I thought that the Wisecups (anglicised from Weiskopfs) had been from this old Moravian Brethren stock, but in the last year, I learned otherwise.
But as I said, I have her haplotype now and it is H.
Anyway, I don't mean to wax romantic about this stuff, it is just that one of my great-grandfather's one each side, disowned their children for marrying wrong (on my mother, the Haas side, it was because he married a Catholic).
So it interests me.
But again, thanks for your site.
Theo Smart
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ReplyDeleteon 30/08/12
ReplyDeleteI have dreamt the greeks and Kurds are same and that the Kurds are from the Edomites (Adites)
on 02/09/12
I dreamt of north africa and the berbers come from the Hittites who come from the Adites MashaaAllaah
==========
on 08/15/12 I dreamt there is no such thing as the amalekites the Imliq are from the Ad
==========
no date 2 times i dreamt the Lydians were in North africa and 1 time they are the Hittites!
==========
on 09/30/12 i dreamt the kurds are from hittite royalty and indians(india)
On 23/09/2013 I dreamt of the Prophet PBH saying the Kurds are from the Chaldeans and he saying they are my people kurds are from indo aryan hittites and also medes
on 10/01/13 m/d/y I dreamt the thamud mixed with the Assyrians
on 20/03/13 I dreamt the thamud are from Prophet HUD PBH
on 20/10/13 I read this from {{{{{{{{Wikipedia "The title and description given by Photius to Thamud indicates that they had a status similar to Qedarites who have been identified as Arabs"}}}}}
MANY years passed by after the torment that befell the people of 'Ad, and other generations came to succeed them. Among these were the Thamud people who were the successors of the believers who were saved with Prophet Hud. Once again, the people of Thamud, deviated from the right path and started to worship idols, and once again, Allah the Most Merciful decided to send them a prophet from amongst themselves to guide them back to the right path. This prophet was Prophet Saleh(SWS).
I dreamt on m/d/y 10/05/12 the Thamud went into India and went into southern India
(((When Thamud in turn was destroyed, the remaining sons of Iram were called Arman — they are Nabateans
from Prophets and Patriarchs)))
The origin of the Nabateans remains obscure, but they were Aramaic speakers, and the term "Nabatean" was the Arabic name for an Aramean of Syria and Iraq.
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ReplyDeleteSouth Asia
ReplyDeleteHaplogroup H-M69 is fairly common among populations of India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Pakistan. But the highest frequencies of H-M69 are in India, especially among Dravidians (33%).[5] In Koya speakers (Dravidian tribes) has been found in 71%.[6]
In India, Haplogroup H-M69 has been found in 27.2% (110/405) of a sample of unspecified ethnic composition from southern India.[7][8] Another study has found haplogroup H-M69 in 26.4% (192/728) of an ethnically diverse pool of samples from various regions of India.[3]
In Sri Lanka, Haplogroup H-M69 has been found in 25.3% (23/91) of a sample of unspecified ethnic composition[7][8] and in 10.3% (4/39) of a sample of Sinhalese.[6]
In Nepal, one study has found Haplogroup H-M69 in approximately 12% of a sample of males from the general population of Kathmandu(including 4/77 H-M82, 4/77 H-M52(xM82), and 1/77 H-M69(xM52, APT)) and in 6% of a sample of Newars (4/66 H-M82).[9]
In Pakistan, Haplogroup H-M52 has been found in 4.1% Burusho, 20.5% Kalash, 4.2% Pashtun, and 2.5% other Pakistanis.[10] Another study has found haplogroup H-M69 in approximately 8% (3/38) of a sample of Burusho (also known as Hunza), including 5% (2/38) H-M82(xM36, M97, M39/M138) and 3% (1/38) H-M36.[11]
In Afghanistan, it has been found in 6.1% Pashtun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haplogrupo_H_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG
This haplogroup is found at a high frequency in South Asia particularly H-M69 and H-M52. Outside South Asia H-M82 subgroup is a major paternal founding lineage of Romani people.
Origins
It is a branch of Haplogroup F, and is believed to have arisen in India between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago.[1] Its probable site of introduction is India since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-Chromosome haplogroup of the indigenous paleolithic inhabitants of India, because it is the most frequent Y-haplogroup of tribal populations (25-35%). H-M69 presence in upper castes is around 10%).
I am a Sefardi Jew and my MtDNA is T2f2. I was given 72% Jewish and 28% European. My maiden name is Cohen. What do you know about T2f2?
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who is Ashkenazi and she just got her results: Haplogroup H7.
Now, I don't understand how haplogroup H for women could be Jewish since MtDNA only passes down from mother to daughters and you said that those women were convert to Judaism. How can this show in DNA? Could you explain, please?
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ReplyDeleteI forgot to mention that I am from France. My grand-parents immigrated there from Salonika and Turkey before WWII.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Tricotine, I am no longer wondering if I am Jewish because we have discovered an old photograph. It shows the grave of my Grandmother's brother, the epitaph in German script. At his birth date is a Star of David. It appears he survived WWII and died in 1955.
ReplyDeleteGlad that part is done. But have tested with 23andme also. FTDNA said I too, was T haplotype. Would be interested to see where your research goes and am waiting for the result of mine. Nadene, anything you may know would be very helpful to add.
Thank you for your response, Sharon, and 'Mazel tov' on your family discovery! :)
ReplyDeleteT is a division of the Haplogroup JT so it kind of make sense than Haplogroup T2 is sometime referred too as the Sefardi haplogroup. My ancestors left Spain in 1492 and find asylum in the Ottoman Empire at the time, which also included Salonika.
On my mom's side results give some origins in Tuscany (not the whole Italy though... ?) Hungary and Armenia.
I was looking at my results (HVR1, HVR2 and Coding Region) last night and noticed that I have more mutations in the Haplogroup H than in the T yet Family Tree DNA told me I was T2f2...
Also, I found a mutation in the Haplogroup J1c2blb. How is this possible since I am not a male? My father is Cohen J1, could it be possible that I inherited that gene from him somehow?
This is very intriguing... :)
ReplyDeleteHello all. I recently received results of my Chromo2 mtDNA (motherline) and the results show Haplogroup K with subtype K1a1b1a. Markers include 16224C 16311C 16519C 73G 263G 497T among others. I have researched what some of this means but am seeking further advice as to how this confirms any Jewish heritage that I may have. Any comments are appreciated. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteIt's true jewish law says the jew only counts through the mother, however that is the only way short of DNA to confirm a bloodline. Ie just because someone is married to your mother it doesn't mean they are your father. My daughter is j1c1 I am waiting for my results. I know my father is Sephardic 100%, my grandfather told the stories of how our ancestors traveled from Israel to the Spain Italy area only to be persecuted and driven away. He said we are from peretz. My mother however is unknown. There has been hints she is Ashkenazi I hope this DNA tells me.
ReplyDeleteAlso Abraham was a direct ancestor of the sons of Jacob not a decendent. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, then the 12 sons who became the 12 tribes.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the kind words Tricotine! The maternal haplotype is T2a. If I had been forced to rely on DNA I don't think this would have been helpful. I can see from previous posts that there are others out there who are also trying to get some peace of mind, looking for proof they are Jewish. Although there appears to be a T link, it is T2e? We think our family are Sephardic Jews. I was very fortunate that we got help from two amazing German Jewish researchers. I wasn't able, by myself, to do the computer enhanced imagery and also reading old German script on photos. We also did detailed searches of immigration records which showed that my mother's entire family was Jewish. Both Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles. I'm sorry to digress from the DNA subject, but I added this just so people who are still searching can have hope. It took me fifty years to finally know for sure they were Jewish. They all went to old age, and then their graves without telling a soul.
ReplyDeleteHi, Sharon.
DeleteI, with my dad, suspect there is Jewish ancestry in our family tree (namely the line where our last name, Heinzman, derives).
I believe there is ancestry going back to Jerusalem for the following reasons:
- Disclaimer: The following derives from the scientific study of bone structure and more generally physical and outward appearance (i.e., phenotypes) and is not intended to be offensive.
- I have always thought my father bore a strong resemblance to Jerry Seinfeld and then, later, also to Ron Perlman and the late Anthony Bourdain. As it turns out, Jerry is part Hungarian Jewish and part Syrian Jewish; Ron is Ashkenazi Jewish, and Anthony was French and Spanish (to a small degree) and Ashkenazi Jewish. (Even now though I still feel my dad looks most like Jerry.) I believe this is no coincidence.
- There is also the science of the friends we choose that ties into phenotypes (i.e., that we choose friends who are similar to us ancestrally AND genetically). In childhood, my best friend was someone I believe has Jewish ancestry (last name of Salchenberg), but I was too young to be curious enough to ask. After graduating high school and eventually moving to Portland, the biggest city in Oregon and with much more diversity than most other cities in Oregon mind you, I became friends with a gal who likely has Jewish ancestry also (last name of Sherman).
-I believe on both sides of my family tree I have ancestry going back to the Plantagenets, Merovingians, and other royal families and houses that ruled the Greater British Isles (countries within), Italy, France, Jerusalem, etc.
However, collective years of research my dad and I done have turned up scant results; we have yet to break through a brick wall we encountered early on relating to my sixth GGF, Dr. Henry Heinzman, who resided in Romney, Hampshire, (then) Colony and Dominion of Virginia from the early to mid-18th century. (I say "scant", because, with the priceless resource, JewishGen, I have found around two ancestors who were Jewish but were not direct ancestors (i.e., father's father's father's, etc. or mother's mother's mother's, etc.).
As you might know, birth certificates were not established yet in the early 18th century U.S., and all information about my last name turns up Dr. Henry (i.e., no parents or siblings). Looking "over the pond" has largely been a dead end also, as dates don't line up with years when Heinzmans were recorded to have lived and when Dr. Henry or (guesstimating years) his parents would have likely lived and emigrated.
My dad and I both live in Oregon (hello, fellow Oregonian, Nadine!) and therefore don't have the luxury of being able to physically go into the National Archives or any East Coast libraries for that matter. As a result, my dad has tried utilizing the help of genealogists who live over there, but they have either flaked out or been outright unresponsive to his request for help.
I am wondering what resource you used to discover your Jewish ancestry?
For what it's worth, I am an Ancestry member and have taken the Ancestry autosomal DNA test. My dad is also a member and took the same test. However, my results came up nearly 50/50 for England, Wales, and NW Europe (one group) and Germanic Europe (with a subset of Germanic Europe being Germans from Russia) and small fractions from Ireland and Scotland (grouped together) and Sweden. My dad's results from what I recall were similar but for sure, like mine, did not show any Jewish ancestry.
Additionally, I am a member of JewishGen, My Heritage, Family Search, and Geni. And, like you, frequent threads discussing Jewish lineage.
Thank you for any help you can provide!
hello nadine. i am finding your webpage very interesting. i have found out recently that my maternal dna is haplogroup J1c3e2. i have found on the pie chart on my ftdna page that under the eurogenes j-test it shows a small amount of ashkenazi jew in my ethnicity. so i assume this is something jewish showing up from my mother. i have also recently found out that there is great possibility that there is another jewish source for what is on my pie chart and though i do not have conclusive paper trail i have discovered the surname katz on my father's side. his mother's maiden was catt but found out that an older relative remembered when the catt name was changed from katz. i found this:
ReplyDelete(As a Jewish surname, Katz is an abbreviation formed from the Hebrew initials of the term Kohen Tzedeq (Hebrew: כּ״ץ), meaning "priest of justice"/"authentic priest" or Kohen Tzadok meaning the name-bearer is of patrilineal descent of the Kohanim sons of Zadok.)
on my paternal origins map on my ftdna page i found sw germany-in particular wuertemberg-was pin-pointed and have found out that wuertemberg germany was the birthplace of a man named katz who immigrated to america. so that bit of circumstancial evidence is perhaps pointing to another jewish source in my dna if i am gathering from this correctly.
so if i may ask your opinion...would katz/catt y-dna be considered J1-J1c3 too?
Spanish omly get their heritage from berbers , greeks and romans all have assyrian heritage assyrians are people of aws
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
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ReplyDeleteNadine,
ReplyDeleteI am intrigued by mention of your grandmother in W haplogroup.
I am W also with 16223T, 16292T, and 16519C in HVR1. So two of these three match two of your grandmother's four.
My mother was adopted and I have intuited that her birth mother was of Jewish ancestry.
I would appreciate hearing what you think. Many thanks
Gosh, I don't know, but if I were you, I think I would go for the next test. Do the results ever say anything like Ashkenazi? That would say that there were Jewish genes. Is there any reason culturally that makes you think she was Jewish? Things she did, thought, say? What language did she speak? Native language? Hope to hear back from you.
ReplyDeleteNadene,
ReplyDeleteDo you know if haplogroup H1b, is Jewish?
j dna does not mean jewish
ReplyDeleteRoma Gypsies have high frequencies haplogroup of Eb1b1 combination with J1 and J2 !!!! Roma from Serbia 70% of Eb1b1 !
ReplyDeleteAlso Roma Gypsies have lots of haplogroup of H ,which is looks like is from Chaldeans and Elamite ,when they where deported to north Izrael in 724 BC .
ReplyDeleteRechabites nomanding tribe of Levites ,they were blacksmith ,they were descent of Kenite (Amorite) Jethro father of law of Moses and Aaron ! Traditions says that Rechabites lived in north Izrael in Samaria ! Alslo they were nazarenes ,which Elamites and Chhaldeans became too , Elamites and Chaldeans ( Akkadians ) mixed with levite tribe of Rechabites ,which is give born to Roma Gypsies from Europe!
ReplyDeleteMandeans ,which are descenadats of Chaldeans from Samaria also belong to haplogroups H- M69 and H1a- M82 same as Roma Gypsies !
ReplyDeletehttp://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/12253-Mandaean-DNA
ReplyDeleteResults for the first Mandaean to test at FTDNA
ReplyDeleteY-DNA STR - The first twelve markers: 12, 22, 16, 11, 14-17, 11, 13, 11, 13, 11, 29. The full complement of standard markers (1-67), are on order.
SNP Backbone: H-M69
FTDNA project admin, Bonnie Schrack, on the WTY results for the Mandaean H:
H1a M82
H1a1 M197
H1a1 M36
Approx. hg: H-M197 L798.2, L898, L899, L900, L901, L902, L903
So M36 would become H1a1a, and the new branch, H1a1b
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(Y-DNA)
ReplyDelete, Haplogroup H (Y-DNA), also known as H-L901/M2939 is a Y-chromosome haplogroup. This haplogroup is found at high frequencies among some populations in South Asia, particularly the subclade H1 (H-M69), including its direct descendant H1a (M52). Outside South Asia, H1a1 (H-M82) – which is a direct descendant of H1A/M-82 – is found commonly in the paternal lineage of Romani people.
ReplyDeleteWhy Elamites and Chaldeans have similar haplogroups ? Because Elamites were realated to Harappeans original peolpe from India!
ReplyDeleteAnd thats the reason why Jews from Samaria after 724 BC.should have similar dna to Sudra peolpe or Dravidians from India!
ReplyDeleteElamite belong to haplogroup H
ReplyDeletehttp://creationwiki.org/Elam
most people dont get the history elamites all they were was a mix between dravidian canaanite with lank hair mixed with another canaanite type same as pure first nations people of north america who have their own language and culture who mixed with another hamitc type very well phut who also have more of caucasoid features. The Dravidians are the original Phoenicians and Sumerians
ReplyDeleteThe Aashur and Amorites(imliq) mixed with Canaanite types I mentioned and also remember Egypt rule up coast of syria most likely mixing with the lank hair canaanites i mentioned. the e3b dna did not originate from east africa cause canaanites did not originate there the mix either happened in North Africa or Levant
the people who are from Chaldeans are the Kurds and Indians they are from Hittite royalty the Hittites became the Indo aryan Lydians (neo hittites) they and the Medes (kurds) mixed and they both mixed with the Arameans who are the chaldeans who are the Nabateans who are the Edomites descendants of Prophet Hud and Saleh PBH
ReplyDeleteDo you think the Chaldeans were some separate race ? No they were indeed not you see the history is like the the Akkadians then Amorites mixing with Canaanites i mentioned they mixed with Adites it is mentioned in bible they are known as people of UZ which means AWS in Arabic
ReplyDeletethey conquered Iraq and Syria when actual tribe of Ad perished Prophet Hud was with Thamud , Thamud lived between al hijr and greater part of Syria they mixed with the Assyrians the Thamud are the ones from Prophet Hud pbh and when thamud went astray Prophet Saleh was sent to them when actual tribe of Thamud perished it was Imliq(amorites) who are from Prophet Saleh
the formation of the Arameans(chaldeans) came after this all they are is the Akkadians and Amorites who are arami because mixing with the Adites and Thamud and they have element of Arphaxad there are 3 nimrods and one of them was Nimrod son of Arphaxad son of shem his dwelling place was north arabia the people of arpahaxad were dwelling in west all the time during the adites and thamud what were they doing all that time in the west until thamud perished.
Prophet Abraham PBH was referred to as the wandering Aramean
the Medes and Lydians(neo Hittites) mixed with them
Dravidians
ReplyDeleteNimrudh (Nimrod) was the son of Kush (Cush) Ibn Kan'an Ibn Ham lbn Nuh. The same who ruled Babil in the days of lbràhim, the friend of the Compassionate.
http://www.soebratie.nl/religie/hadith/IbnSad...
The Mediterranean Peoples (Dravidians)
(Extracts from ‘The Original Indians â€" An Enquiry’ by Dr. A. Desai)
How the Mediterranean people came to be called Dravidians makes interesting story. The Pre-Hellenistic Lycians of Asi Minor, who where probably the Mediterranean stock called themselves Trimmili. Another tribe of this branch in the island of Crete was known by the name Dr(a)mil or Dr(a)miz. In ancient Sanskrit writings we find the terms Dramili and Dravidi, and then Dravida which referred to the southern portion of India.
South India was known to the ancient Greek and Roman geographers as Damirica or Limurike. Periplus Maris Erithroei (Periplus of the Eritrean Sea) in the second or third century AD described the maritime route followed by Greek ships sailing to the South Indian ports: “Then follow Naoura and Tundis, the first marts of Limurike and after these Mouziris and Nelkunda, the seats of government.â€
Dramila, Dravida and Damirica indicated the territory. Then it was applied to the people living in the territory and the language they spoke, in the local parlance Tamil and Tamil Nadu or Tamilakam.
-----------------------
The Mediterraneans or Dravidians were associated with the ancient Sumerian civilizations of Mesopotamia and of Elam (southern Iran)
========================================================================================
Dravidians In Crete they were known by the name which the Greeks wrote as Termilai, in Asia Minor as 'Trimmili' or Trimalai (Sastri p60), and in India as Dramiza, Dravida, Dramila and finally Tamil. Their deity was "Mother-Earth" who gave them grain, vegetables and food. The 'Mother Goddess' cult belonged exclusively to Crete where it was known as Durgha (compare Trqqas mentioned in Lycian inscriptions in Asia Minor) as Uma or Parvati. (Sastri p61) They probably brought along with them to India this Mediterranean or Aegean Saivaism, Mother Goddess with her consort Siva.
from tamil scholar
nimrod bin Arfakhshaad
ReplyDeletepage16 of prophets and patriarchs it says Arfakhshaad also had a son, nimrod bin Arfakhshaad whose dwelling was in the vicinity of al hijr
on page 18 of prophets and patriarchs it says Nimrod was son of cush bin canaan bin ham bin Noah . he was the Lord of babylon and of Abraham,the Friend of the Merciful
one of the offspring of cush was nimrod the one who ruled tyranically in babylon
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9e/45/60/9e4560fc09b6dda222e8cc478a3574c8.gif
ReplyDeleteImliq(amorites were in North Africa as well
'Imliq was the progenitor of the 'Imlags. And to them belong tale people of Barbar whose genealogy is as follows: Barbar Ibn Tamila(Thamila) Ibn Mazarab(Maarib) Ibn Fárán Ibn 'Amr Ibn 'Imliq Ibn Ludh Ibn Sam Ibn Nuh. As regards Sunhajah and Kutamah, they are the descendants of Fariqis Ibn Qays Ibn Sayfi Ihn Saba (Sheba). It is said that 'Imliq was the first person to speak Arabic when his people had migrated from Babil. They along with the Jurhumites were known as al-'Arab al-'Aribah.
imliq is the father of Amalekites who came the berbers, who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin Amr bin Imliq bin Lud bin Shem bin Nuh AS with the exception of Sinhaja and Kitaama who are offspring of Furayqish bin Sayfi bin Sibaa
To Lud bin Shem was born Tasm and Judays?who dwelt in al Yamaamah.Lud also begot 'Imliq whose dwelling place was the holy area(al haram) and the outskirts of Makka. Some of his descendant's reached Syria among these are the Amalekites from whom the Pharaohs of Egypt came. To Lud to was born Umaym who had many offspring some of these broke away to join Gomer bin Japheth in East.(Prophets and Patriarchs) ** note if Gomer is progenitor of Indo aryan Hittites Hittites were not europeans . then it is people of Umaym who mixed with them not sure on this Umaym thing
The Muslim historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Lud was named Shakbah, daughter of Japheth, and that she bore him "Faris, Jurjan, and the races of Faris". He further asserts that Lud was the progenitor of not only the Persians, but also the Amalekites and Canaanites, and all the peoples of the East, Oman, Hejaz, Syria, Egypt, and Bahrein.wikipedia
they were in Iraq, Syria North Africa and most likely other areas of Arabia as mentioned
Wow, what a cool blog. I just got my mtdna results and am in H7, looking for info, possibly about Khazars. Also it says I have less than 0.1% Ashkenazi.
ReplyDeleteIrideagreenbike Are you looking for Jewish family background?
ReplyDeleteHi,Director Mike Nichols and I have maternal haplogroup K2a2a.People always tease me about looking like Einstein more than I look like my own father.Then today I discovered that Nichols is a cousin of Einstein,learned through the DNA of Einstein's great-grandfather.I tried to find out what Einstein's maternal DNA was but I'm thinking that maybe it won't ever be known.Maybe it could only be learned from his mother or a sibling of his mother.Is that how maternal DNA works? I'm tempted to pay a researcher to see what chances are that I'm related to the man.
ReplyDeleteI started researching my family when the election of 2016 happened bc if Hillary would have one I was going to go toi Israel. It was a secret. Just got the DNA and all they gave me was a bunch of percentages and no real numbers other that I was H4. My Mothers side was of Hebrew descent. Interesting blog, but when "Unknown" started listing the enemies of ALMIGHTY MOST HIGH ONLY ELOHIM God the Father and the King Adonai is coming soon. After the event happens and the world is in chaos thats when the lawless one will appear. The bad blood came not from NOAH &sons it was their Wives who had His seed. I know that I belong to Him who Is MOST HOLY & MOST HIGH there is no other. The Lord of Host, Angel of the Lord, Yehoshua, Joshua in English. Now I have to pay for another test. My family was numbered. Had to hide their heritage. However my Maw *& Paw loved YHWH and ADONAI tught me the only good and truth comes from the most beautiful love story ever told in the WORD OF GOD. I am not only a Chosen Race I am not any religion, which came from man. I am A Woman After God's Heart, A Daughter Of David's
ReplyDeleteCan someone be J1c and not jewish? I tested as haplogroup J1c5a, but my family are a mix of Irish, Basque and French and as far as I'm aware have no jewish lineage (only christian). My mother and I also inherited the 0 rh- blood group, which seems to be common in both sephardi jewish and Basque groups, which my mother's father also had (not sure about her mother, but she could also be a carrier). My father is blood type A rh+ and likely a haplogroup from the northern european migrations (currently awaiting his DNA results). But as far as I know there aren't any jewish links.
ReplyDeleteSuggest that you study genetics - this site is full of misinformation
ReplyDeleteOk, I take that back. Got my father's DNA results back and he is part jewish (sephardic) so I guess there is a link. Interestingly, when we compared all the migratory paths of both sides of the family, they both come from the same area between the Black Sea and Iraq 7k years back. That obviously doesn't confirm anything else on this site (albeit interesting to read).
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4867443/
ReplyDeleteWe found a set of founder lineages, present in the Roma and virtually absent in the non-Roma, for the maternal (H7, J1b3, J1c1, M18, M35b, M5a1, U3, and X2d) and paternal (I-P259, J-M92, and J-M67) genomes.
European 'gypsies', commonly referred to as Romanies, are represented by a large number of groups spread across many countries. We performed a population genetic study on 200 unrelated Romany males to reveal the genetic origin of the Slovak Romany population. On the basis of Y-chro-mosome haplotypes, we determined the corresponding Y-haplogroups using Whit Athey's Haplogroup Predictor. The obtained distribution of haplogroups provided strong evidence of Asian origins, espe-cially Indian. The Indian Y-haplogroup H was the most prevalent and represented 40% of all the sam-ples. The distribution of haplogroups was: E1b1b, 21%; J2, 16.5%; I1a, 14%. Haplogroups R1a, R1b, I2a, and N1 were observed in small frequencies
ReplyDelete(PDF) Y-Haplogroup frequencies in the Slovak Romany population. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236178528_Y-Haplogroup_frequencies_in_the_Slovak_Romany_population [accessed Nov 11 2018].
That haplogroup H in Roma Gypsies could be from Elamite and Chaldeans from Samaria
ReplyDeleteI was recently upgraded with 23&Me from J-M267 to J-CTS5368--Z2215 any ideas anybody 85.5 Iberian
ReplyDeleteI was recently upgraded with 23&Me from J-M267 to J-CTS5368--Z2215 any ideas anybody! 85.5% Iberian
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing, nice post! Post really provice useful information!
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Eb1b1 is probably from Netufians, which they probably were Kushite- Cannanite in Origin could be Egyptian there as well.
ReplyDeleteThus, our findings point to a possible Indian origin of both Roma-specific haplogroups, M5a1b and M35b. Previously, we have found that the Polish Roma population is characterized by high incidence (18.8%) of haplogroup J1 * lineage, defined by HVS I mo- tif 16069–16126-16145–16222-16235–16261-16271 (Malyarchuk et al. 2006a).
ReplyDeleteThe Azerbaijani Jewish community is dominated by a J2b1
ReplyDeletelineage (Table 2). We screened a selection of West Eurasian and
North African population samples (N = 6076) for Hg J2 genomes
that contained HVS-I motif 16069, 16126, 16193. Significantly,
this large mtDNA selection contains a duplicate of the Azerbaijani
Jewish community collected in Israel
Then there is the work of Dr. Doron Behar, who is on the Board of FTDNA and in speaking of Iranians, refers to "The Iraqi Jewish mtDNAswithin Hg J1 had the hallmark of control region haplotype 16069-16126-16145-16222-16261- 73-263-295
ReplyDeletemtDNA haplotypes in Slovak populations include Roma gypsies
69 126 145 222 235 261 271 73 263 295 309iC J1a E(2)
69 126 145 222 235 261 271 73 263 295 309iC 315iC J1a E(1)
69 126 145 222 235 261 271 290 73 263 295 309iC 315iC J1a E(1)
69 126 145 172 222 261 73 242 263 295 309iC 315iC J1b1
Romani language Phonecian Hebrew?
ReplyDeletehttps://phoenician-language.weebly.com/home/creators-of-sanskrit-language
ReplyDeleteWasn't Abraham's father's lineage subjected to a genocide in Nimrod's day?
ReplyDeleteThat should cause a bottleneck if you are comparing populations for a question of origin, if they were wiped out and forced away from their initial home en masse..
If that is the case, it could complicate things.
Plus there may be other relevant history we don't know about.
La misma información nos da Family Tree DNA, pero amplía un poco más el abanico y dice: “Haplogrupos Y comunes (línea paterna directa) entre romaníes, sinti y gitano: H1a M-82, J2 (J-M67), J2a1b1 (J-M92), E-V13, I2a, I2a1, R1a, R1a1a haplogrupos comunes de mtDNA (línea materna directa) entre Romani, Sinti y Gitano: M5a1b, X2e, X2e1, X2d, H7, J1b, J1b3, J1c, U3b, I1a (M27).
ReplyDeleteTodos estos haplogrupos son los mismos que tienen los judíos, con una diferencia que los gitanos son las 10 tribus perdidas de Israel.